I'm scared, damn scared. Steve looks like a guy who really wants to win, not just play for a horrible team and build up his stats. And if he is healthy with the same support for the next few years, we're talking about a team being stuck near 7th or 8th at best. I'm just afraid he's gonna run with a better team gives him a glimpse of upper echelon b-ball. Let's face it, Steve isn't a Marbury or Iverson. And to me, it's great that he isn't like them, but it means he'll need solid role players. Some felt Garnett was a little too soft during crunch time, too much of a team player when he needed to dominate, but with the right role players, the T-Wolves are doing fine this year. And if Steve sees a team with better credentials....man, I just don't want to think about it. We better lock him up quick.
There are several ways of thinking about this: 1) Steve wants to stay in a familiar environment with his friends (Cat, Mooch etc...) and we give him the max. 2) Steve wants to win, and goes to a contender for the minimum or a lower salary. 3) Steve wants to win, and demands a trade to a contender. (LAL etc..) 4) Steve stays in Houston believing that this team can win a Championship/be a contender soon-ish. 5) Steve stays on the condition that they give him the max. 6) Steve stays for a lower salary, but wants more help on the court via trades etc... 7) Steve signs for the max and becomes one of the greatest players never to win a championship, but his stats are GREAT! Any others out there?? It just depends on what Steve thinks.
Steve will expect the max no matter what- IMHO. I have been thinking about this ever since we lost to the Grizz. I think he will stay - he is a very large frog in a small pond of talent here. He would have the ego clash at the LA Lakers, and New York - big market - no concern about the luxury tax would no doubt pay Steve Max money , but they suck long term. They can't buy a team no matter how much they spend.I have been worried about the Wizards. Steve is from Wa. DC area. I think he will stay here, but we need to make sure he is happy. If he does not want to stay we can do a sign and trade. I do not want to see this happen, because of all the resources used to get Steve, but you never know. In a mega trade-the one trading the big player almost never comes out on the best end. If Steve gets unhappy and complains to the media- his stock goes down-we get less. Phoenix is the only team I can think of that came out good in big trades for the same player- when they traded to PHI. for Barkley -they gave up little, and I feel they got a lot in the trade with us. They parlayed Sam Cassell and others for Jason Kidd. Anyway- I do not think Steve will leave unless we get into a losing trough for longer than this season. I personally hope we can keep him- he has really tried to help recruit good talent here. Recall his phone calls to Mo Taylor and also Chris Webber.
Steve is just starting his 3rd year as a pro. I will not expect him to be 100% fit for anything come play-offs time or leading this team to a championship for another 3 years. I can't see how you can estimate Steve not winning a championship with the Rockets this early.
Well, Miggidy, Here's how the thinking goes. The Rockets don't look good. Not only do they not look good now, they're locked in with all of their bad players, but not with thier good ones (or good one). This Sharply contrasts the L.A. Lakers, the NBA champions, for instance, who are locked in with thier franchise players and not locked in with thier scrubs. So, the overwhelming chances are that we're going to be a really bad team for a while. Houston has done it before. Steve can stay here, but it will be with the knowledge that he won't really ever play with a good big man, because of Cato, or the garbage we're going to get for Cato. This is bad. Glenn Rice is another bad thing. Mo Taylor, who the hell knows. I didn't like his lack of physical intensity before his career threatening achilles injury. Chances are, he's never going to reboud the ball, ever. We're screwed. Stevie's nightly dinners with Cuttino aren't nessecarily going to cut it.
I think there is a strong chance that Steve will be moving back home and playing for the Wizards. He's fiercely loyal to the area and the chances are probably greater than 50% that the Rox will miss the playoffs both this year and next. If that's the case, Steve's gone.
I agree with TMo that Steve won't stay if we still can't make the playoffs after next season. I also agree that I don't see Steve going somewhere where he can't be the man. I never thought seriously about Steve playing for the Wizards, but I'm not so sure now.
considering the circumstances in which we acquired him, I think it's entirely possible he'll sign elsewhere. By the time he's a free agent it's possible he and Cuttino will drift apart/break up. Here's a couple of hypothetical trade scenarios: Steve & Tmo to LAC for Darius Miles & Quentin Richardson? Steve to GSW for Antawn Jamison? Steve to POR for Bonzi Wells, Erick Barkley & Zach Randolph? Steve to IND for Jamal Tinsley, Al Harrington & Jeff Foster? Steve & Cato to ATL for Theo Ratliff & Jason Terry? Steve & Cato to WAS for Richard Hamilton, Kwame Brown, Etan Thomas & Tyronn Lue?
Well fromobile, Here's how another thinking goes. One could argue that by-in-large mostly flakes like The Big Aristotle, a young, stoned Webber and "My Momma Says" Marbury leave teams or force trades early in their careers for reasons of futility-for-fame. Those who consider winning more challenging than that usually don't bail on their first team. Hill waited 7yrs. Duncan will wait another 3yrs. Jordan never bailed early. Jamison. Vince. Barkley was not in a max cap situation, so he was more after money from 76rs, no? Iverson stuck it out with little talent around him. Kidd is an anomaly, because Dallas made a stupid trade, most agree...did Kidd demand that? I can't remember. McGrady is an anomaly because of the Vince thing. Mac wanted to be the man. And that is what we are talking about. Players who are clearly "the man" and are given the keys to the team generally don't bail early. SAR might be one, but we don't know how much the organization simply sucked. Some orgs clearly don't want to pay money. I'm sure someone will find some stars who bail early on teams, and even class organizations...proving this as rule is not my point, anymore than fromobile's point is to prove that as a "rule" Steve even believes in his picture of futility...eg, he loves Moochie's play. (Simpler put, are we projecting our belief of futilty onto what Francis must be thinking?) My point is, we really want Francis to believe that "HE" can do it with any standard complement of players, and try as hard as he can until he knows the team peaked. Then he's free to go. But with Griffin, this team is not peaking until Steve is about 28-29 yrs old. He can go shop himself for a ring later after Shaq retires. Stay here Steve. The future isn't as pitiful as fromobile paints it. You'll be a better player for it.
Crispee, what about Duncan? Yeah, he stayed, but he was damn close to going too. I don't feel too comfortable about Steve following his example. Or is Duncan's situation different because the Spurs had already peaked?
I agree with HeyP. I'm still amazed that so many of ya'll are convinced that we're doomed to mediocrity. I don't know exactly what everyones' contracts read, but I do know that Williams and Rice won't be here too much longer. Cato, though he still more or less sucks, is playing better than last year, and with each passing season, we're that much closer to being rid of him. Willis, who imo brings a lot to the table for any team in the league, is a good teacher for Cato, and Willis won't be here for too much longer anyway. By the time this team is truly ready to compete for a ring and not just a playoff berth, Cato should be gone, as will Williams and Rice. All of the above leads to our potential starting 3 in TMo and our potential starting 4-5 in Griffin. At the moment, Torres is more than a good back up for Cuttino, and despite his tendency to dribble out the shot clock, Mooch is a great backup for Francis (If Mooch doesn't learn not to dribble so damn much, then either he is an idiot or its Rudy's fault). Here's where I see our line up in a few years. Keep in mind that I'm expecting Tmo and EG live up to their potential ability: 1 -- Francis w/ Mooch 2 -- Cuttino w/ Torres 3 -- Tmo w/ ??? 4 -- MoT w/ ??? 5 -- EG w/ ??? Of course I'm assuming here that EG becomes the 5 so many project he will become. If he doesn't, and he lives up to his potential, he's a 4 at the very least, in which case imo the offensive-minded Maurice Taylor becomes tradeable since we'll have the defensive-minded EG who is easily capable of just as much offense, if not more, at the 4. I don't believe for a second that any of the current Rockets truly think that we're ready for a championship right now. If I can see the incredible future potential of this team, then definitely so can Rudy and definitely so can Francis. I keep harping on the inexperience of this team being the only thing really holding us back. I'll up date that: Our inexperience, combined with the plethora of injuries and a few contracts holding us back for 2-3 more years, is what's holding this team back. Interestingly enough, 2-3 more years is, imo, what we need experience-wise for everybody (especially TMo and EG) to develop the experience and chemistry of a true championship contender. If Steve can't see that, then I'm a Jazz fan.
If he doesn't have it in him to stick it out with this team, screw him. If that's what he's made of, chances are he'll never win a championship anyway, and we need to be trying to find a different franchise player. You've already decided Griffin isn't going to be good?
I don't believe Kidd asked to be traded. I remember hearing a quote from him (a good deal later) saying roughly: 'I don't know what Dallas was thinking when they traded me.' I think Nelson said something very similar after he arrived. As far SAR, I believe he did bail on his team. He was traded because, when the new owner came on, SAR asked him if he could be traded and the owner promised he would if he could get a good deal. Same with Bibby.
Why would Steve care how good/bad this team is without him? The Rockets have been built around Cuttino and him; with both injured, of course we're going to stink... Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the majority of this losing streak, Both guys have been injured- they played through a few of them, but you could tell something was not right. How good are any of the other NBA teams without their two best players (or three best players, if you count Mo?) This team is NOT this bad. Although very undersized, there is a lot of talent here. As mentioned earlier, it will likely be even better in a year or two (when we might really be contending). We're really only a big man away... I'm sure Steve knows this. I really believe he really wants to be somewhere he can be the man. Rudy has effectively given him the keys to the car. If he was after money, he will be able to get more here than anywhere else, too. Plus, he has two close friends here in Cuttino and Morris. I think (hope) he'll stay here...Les, go ahead and give him your wallet now...
Kidd didn't ask for a trade, the first thing Nelson did was break that team up when he came in. Kidd for Finley doesn't seem that bad. Jackson, Cassel, and gatling for Bradley doesn't sem that good either. The only trade that he really did good on was trading Trent to Milw for the rights to Dirk
leebigez -- just a heads up, but Nelson didn't trade Kidd. Kidd was traded just before Nelson got there. He also dealt Tractor Traylor, not Trent, to Milwaukee for Dirk on draft day, if I remember correctly. Another deal that wasn't so hot for Nelson was giving up on Jamal Mashburn for nothing (Kurt Thomas took off to NY a year or two later)
Remember when GB got banned? It was for saying this very thing: Stevie has a lot of dog in him (to quote Gary payton) and that and his personality are (to me) a lot like MJ's. I really think MJ is gonna target him and it will be a very tough fight for Houston. Ok...I guess if Clutches standards hold true I shoudl say this now...it's been nice.
god dang it. for once i was hoping to see a "to denver for raef." always there when i dont want to see it...never there when i do.
Did anyone notice Steve's anguish on the bench last night. He was constantly shaking his head in disgust, holding his head between his legs and generally showing displeasure and more of a disappointment and left the court with 2 minutes left in the game! I think he will not tolerate losing and not making the playoffs for very long. He will begin to lose faith in the Rockets system and coaching staff. For example, when is he going to speak his mind about EG dropping 3s all the time and failing? When is he going to speak his mind about inside passes that keep getting dropped by our big men?
