Okay, not just Sosa, but other dark skinned Latinos with ethnic African characteristics? I'm taking this cultural psychology class, and we were talking about minorities. The first day we talked about Blacks. One of the articles we had to read was written by Rush Limbaugh and he said that Blacks who succeed are looked down on because of their success by other Blacks. In class, I argued that it wasn't their "success" that made them a "sell-out" or not, it was how they acted or how they were involved in their community after their success. Limbaugh's examples were Jordan or Colin Powell, because some Black leaders or polls have shown that the majority of Blacks do not relate with them. My response was what about Magic Johnson or Sammy Sosa? They're both black and successful, but neither is considered a sell-out. But, my (goof of a) teacher said, "Well, Sammy Sosa is not Black". I was like, "huh?" I realize he's Domincan and therefore considered a Latino, but he also has African ancestory. I asked the class that if he does have a US citizenship (I don't know if he does, but asked them to assume for the sake of argument), then he's an American, and there's no denying his African heritage, so why wouldn't he be an "African-American"? Then this Black guy in front of me says I'm way off (actually said, "That's garbage"). So, I'm very confused and starting to think I am the only person in the world who thinks that Sosa is Black..... After a few converstations with different people, I've come to my own conclusion: I was wrong. Sammy is not "Black". Being "Black" is construct of the US, not of the Dominican Republic. BUT, he is African-American. There were slaves and Africans on the island of Hispanola (where the Dominican Republic and Haiti are), so he's got the "African" part. And, he is American, regardless of his citizenry to the US or not. North, Central, South and all the Carribean islands make up "The Americas". So, Sammy is "American". Therefore, "African-American". I've got more, but I'll wait and see if y'all have anything to say on the topic. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
Well, if F.W. DeClerk immigrated to the U.S., he'd be African-American, too, but not in the political sense that the term is used in the United States today. ------------------ Why not visit MovieForums.com? Or FilmDallas.com?
F.W. deClerk = The last White president of South Africa. He'd have the "African" part, but neither the dark skin or other "Black" physical characteristics that are part of "African ancestory". Also, unlike Sosa, he was not born in "The Americas" and hence not an American. Besides, being "Black" in the Dominican Republic is equated as being "Haitian" and Haitians are looked down upon, much like Blacks in the US. I always here Latinos say that there's not racism in their country. But, they only say that because they don't have the same racial diversity as we do here in the states. Dominicans are just as conscious about skin color as Americans (regardless of what ethnicity they may be). I watched a documentary about Dominicans on PBS once. There was this guy who was a darker skinned man, though not quite as dark as Sosa. His mother kept telling him to marry a woman who was lighter skinned than him, so their kids would be lighter skinned. She said she didn't want her grandkids to be dark skinned, even though her own son was! Just because some Latinos deny (or whatever you want to call it) their African ancestory, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I was also curious of how Blacks in the US view someone like Lennox Lewis. Do they relate to him? He's not American. He's not African. But, his ancestory is African, and the British had slavery too. What about Jamaicans? or Blacks in Colombia? or Brasil? ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited July 18, 2001).]
My point being, though, that the term "African-American" is not a term used to accurately describe a culture or even really a specific background in the United States. It's a term used as a synonym for "Black", and our current definition of "black" wouldn't include a Sammy Sosa at this point. (And in regard to DeClark being an "African-American" that's why I mentioned the immigration part. We consider immigrants to be hypenated Americans all the time, but DeClerk wouldn't fit our current definition of African-American, but he would fit a definition of African-American because he'd be an African who immigrated to America. DeClerk doesn't fit our American definition of an African-American, and neither does Sammy Sosa just based on what the term has come to mean in the United States. To claim otherwise is to change the generally accepted definition of what an African-American is in the United States right now). ------------------ MovieForums.com FilmDallas.com ThingFromUranus.com
Okay, maybe my problem was making my question too specific or too indepth. Maybe what I'm asking is: What do Blacks in the US feel towards people from other countries with African ancestory. And, what sort of "African" connectiveness to these people have in the culture they grow up in? For instance, Africans (from what I have seen) do not hold people of African ancestory from other countries in very high regard. In the movie "Amistad", the Africans are being moved through the streets at one point, and one of them is yelling at a Black man driving a coach. But, the main character-leader-guy tells him to stop yelling, because he's not like them. The other guy looks puzzled and asks, "What is he?". To which the leader says, "A White man". Also, in the movie "New Jack City", when Snipes is negotiating a drug deal with some Africans, the Africans say they don't want to do business with him. He asks why and the one guys says the Africans think of him as a slave (or something to that effect, some African term similar to the "N" word). I know those are movies, but they are examples of the relationship between peoples of the same ancestory, but differing nationalities. In my class, we read a different article saying that Blacks in the US weren't truly "Americans". The author was saying that because they had been treated as second-class citizens they were not given all the rights and priviledges as White Americans, that he didn't consider Blacks to be Americans. To this I said Blacks are Americans. The US has the most diverse ethnic makeup in the world. And, the Black population played a large role in our history from the bad to the good (slavery to civil rights). Also, I asked, if Blacks were not Americans, what are they? They are not Africans. They cannot expect to move to Africa and live as Africans do, because they will be discriminated against for being Black-Americans. I dunno... I just wanted some feedback. My stupid classmates, act like they've sewn their lips together. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
Huh? Being black on the island of Hispanola has nothing to do with being looked down upon or being Haitian. There are many Dominicans who appear to be "black". That in no way means that they are Haitian or have Haitian ancestors. My mother is Dominican and has a light skin complexion. However, she has eleven brothers and sisters, and 3 of these siblings appear to be "black" as well. That does not make them looked down upon or Haitian. However, Haiti in general is looked down upon by Dominicans. Many Haitians try to cross the border into the Dominican Republic, but if caught they are deported back to Haiti immediately. Most Haitians are very, very dark (Darius Miles comes to mind), but like I said there are many Dominicans that are just as, or nearly as dark. Two of my aunts still live in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, and I've now been over there on 5 different occasions. The concern over skin color thing is probably just a personal thing some Dominicans have I guess...but like you said that happens in America and lots of other places around the world. As for Sosa, no way he would be considered "black" as it is viewed in America. He would just be Dominican or Dominican-American. Most Dominican baseball players are pretty easy to tell just by looking at them (Alou, Sosa, Tatis), but one guy that surprised me was Tony Eusebio (by the looks, not name). He looks completely African-American in my opinion... [This message has been edited by SteveFrancis3 (edited July 18, 2001).]
Sosa is "not white, or red, or black [he's] brown", but not "from the Boogie Down, Productions of course" their music's still "bumpin', others say they're 'bad' but they're buggin' "... Couldn't resist the KRS-ONE urge. Sorry. ------------------ Proud Father of the Rockets' future point guard. (and maybe a Power Forward on the way!! Or possibly a Comet!!)
What do other countries call their "darked skinned" people? Australian-Africans? European-Africans? Geography shouldn't determine skin color. I am American. I'm not Anglo-American. My nextdoor neighbor who's generations of family have lived in America is black. He is not African-American. If I move to Africa, I am a African now. I have heard from missionaries back in Africa who say Africans look down on black Americans because they are ungrateful. Many say they would more than happy to take the opportunity to be a slave in the Americans if the opportunity arose, much less face the racism. ------------------ "Bada Bing!"
It's all about political correctness... "African American" is probably a term somebody came up with because they thought the current word they were using at the time (probably "colored" or "negro") sounded too harsh...Just like "colored" was the accepted term back in the early twentieth century, the term "black" is the generally accepted term now. Of course, check back in 40 years and see if people still use the word "black"... BTW, does anybody know why the NAACP still uses that acronym? I know that if I called somebody "colored" today, I'd probably get beat down good ------------------ Mein bratwurst has a first name, it's F-R-I-T-Z Mein bratwurst has a second name, it's S-C-H-N-A-C-K-E-N-P-F-E-F-F-E-R-H-A-U-S-E-N
A-Train, You can't just change the name of a long-standing institution. They need to keep their familiarity and history (in the mind of the public), thus, no change. ------------------ Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony.
Wouldn't that be, "South African American"...? "South African-African American"...? George Carlin did a bit on this. Funny.
That's not what I meant. I wasn't talking about skin color in the Dominican Republic as much as I was the term "Black". In the Dominican Rep. if you call someone "Black" you basically are calling them Haitian. And, as I said and you confirmed, Haitians are not viewed as "equals", "as good as", (or whatever) to Dominicans. What do you think of my recollection of the documentary I saw on PBS? About the mother not wanting her son to marry a darker skinned (but not nearly as dark as Sosa) woman, even though he was slightly dark skinned? -------------------------- RR, I was waiting for your take. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that only Americans classify people by skin color or even "sub-divide" people. It goes on everywhere. Not that that makes it right.... The US will always have more racial problems than any other country in the entire world, because we are the most diverse. But, countries who have very little diversity have just as much if not more racial tension. This is more what I'm talking about. But, terms such as "African", "Asian", and "Hispanic" encompass more than one culture/country Asians can come from various Asian countries: China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, even India (which I find weird) Hispanics can come from any numerous Central and South American (as well as Carribean) countries, like: Mexico, Guatemala, Brasil, Chile, Puerto Rico, Cuba, Trinidad, etc. Africans on the other hand... at least "African-Americans" don't know where the hell they came from. This is one of the results of the American slave trade that will always be present. Who else in here is Black? I'd like to know what y'alls opinion is on this. Even though it may or may not be representative the overall Black population in the US.. I'm not doing a scientific study here. So far one Latino has said Sosa (and other dark skinned Latinos) is not Black. And, Rocket River (a black man from what I gather) says Sosa is black.... More feedback, I need more. ------------------ DREAMer's Rocket Page
Rocket River: What was that little quote you had at the bottom of your post? Are you referring to the rapper? ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
geez guys, alot of grey area here. I consider Sosa of African descent just as I consider my neighbor of Polish descent. They are both American though. Space Ghost, what you say is interesting. Who's that VERY conservative African-American who states that slavery was the best thing to happen to Africans ??? ------------------ "norm, would you like to buy an indian scalp ? This deal isn't gonna make or break me Norm, so don't jerk me around." Harry Carey "Norm, if I had a mohawk scalp, I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you."
yes If you see the video for ME MYSELF and I by Dela Soul he is in it. "people think they diss my person by stating I'm darkly pack I know this and I point at Q-tip and he says Black is Black" - Dela Soul - Me Myself and I Rocket River ------------------
Rocket River: Cool, I really liked Tribe Called Quest, but was a bit disappointed by Q-tip's solo album. I mean, the music was good, but what's with all the materialism in that? All his lyrics were about cars and women... made me sad, even though I liked the album. ------------------ Clutchcity.net... source for all your Rockets, Astros, political, music, humor, and Gordita news.
MADD COMEDY!!!! OK . . .Let's put it out there African Americans are ungrateful? OK . . If you do Equal work . . but don't get Equal pay you should be grateful that you getting paid at all? Is it b****ing to complain about that? If you are an EQUAL citizen and the public officials treat u like less than an equal citizen is it UNGRATEFUL to complain about it? considering you pay the same taxes everyone else does? [who by the way complain too] If I was starving . . . in america a turkish prison would look like a step up . .if they fed me. . . It is about perspective. ungrateful . . . PUL LEASE Just because u love something [America] does not mean you should let it **** OVER YOU and then thank them for the pleasure Rocket River BTW - foreigners are on the outside looking in . . .grass is ALWAYS greener. I could comment on a FEW choice opinions I have about MISSIONARIES AFRICANS, EUROPEANS, etc. ------------------
I think he's a good hitter, but honestly, his fielding could really improve. ------------------ It was the time of the preacher, in the year of '01 Now the preachin' is over, and the lessons begun . . .
Whow! Whow! I don't see the word "best" anywhere. It was a statement that people sit around and b**** that they are mistreated when there are millions out there that are more misfortunate. ------------------ "Bada Bing!"
so you saying. . . If something happens to you . . . don't b**** because there are others in worse situations. . . .just grin and bare it? So If I beat the tobacco juice out of you don't b**** about crime.. . . cause there are women getting rape. If I steal ya money don't b**** cause at least you have money to steal. Rocket River ------------------
