Is Phil Jack_ss!!! Really that good?????

If you had Shaq, Kobe, Rice, the officials and an entire media outlet anyone could lead a team to 60 wins and the finals. Then with Chicago he had Mj, Quitten, Kukoc, Rodman and still got every call. Basically it is not that Phil is a good coach but usually has a great lineup.

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I AM SPARTACUS

 

themugg- I know exactly what you're saying. I am so sick of that arrogant smirk on his face. He thinks he is such a great coach, and the way people treat him I'm sure only enhances that belief. People need to realize that this guy has not done something like what Doc Rivers did and taken a team to reach well above its potential. He has had great players (and officiating) to bail him out. He himself hasn't proven anything to me- only that you can win with good players, which was pretty much a known fact.

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Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.

[This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 12, 2000).]

 

The man has to be one of the most arrogant people to ever grace the earth. If it wasn't done by him it was a farse, if a team wins a championship when he is it out it is an asterick title. A player on Dallas this year said it best(I think Robert Pack), he said something like "who thinks he could do that Zen junk with a team like this." This ain't the exact quote but basicall he discredited Jackson and basically said how good would he be if went to any team but the Lakers.

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I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a while :

1) Why should a coach with six world championships go to a team like Orlando?

2) Doc Rivers did a fantastic job in Orlando, but don't overestimate it, he took team that was crap, and made it below-average.

3) If anyone could win with Shaq, Kobe and Rice, why didn't they?

How come Jordan never won anything before Jackson came to the Bulls?

I don't really buy into the whole Zen thing, and Tex Winters probably handles the strategic planning, but Jackson's ability to manage superstar egos(Jordan, Pippen, Shaq and Kobe) shouldn't be dismissed.

In today's and tomorrow's NBA, that skill is and will be extremely important.

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Drop kick me Jesus through the goalposts of life,
Tumble end over end, neither left nor right.
Straight on ahead through the goalposts I'll go.
I've got the faith Lord, If you've got the toe.

 

Puedlfor-
1. Orlando is an example of how Doc Rivers took a team and got more out of them than anyone expected, he had some success without a superstar. Phil has never been in a situation of rebuilding, except when Mj reitred and he quit on the Bulls. Rudy T. is an example of how a great coach stick's with his club even when his superstars aren't there. 2. Doc RIversdid an exceptional job in Orlando, they were one game away from the playoffs. 3. The Lakers this season have been the leaques poster team, it is obvious the media outlets and officials are helping them win. 4. Jordan needed his supporting cast to come into Chicago, once that happened they won without Phil's help. Mj was the actual coach on that team. As for your lord stuff, don't get me started.

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I AM SPARTACUS

[This message has been edited by DEANBCURTIS (edited June 13, 2000).]

 

1) Incorrect. Phil Jackson's contract wasn't renewed by Krause after the 6th championship, which led to Jordan's retirement. Besides, Jackson wanted to retire after the 4th championship, believing life runs in 7-yr cycles. Or something like that.

2) Yes, they were one game away from the playoffs, and he did a good job, I won't deny that. But let's be realistic, when 16 out of the 29 teams in the league make the playoffs, not making the playoffs makes you below average. Orlando did more than expected, but they still were below average.

3) I'll agree that the media has favorite teams(Lakers and Raptors), but helping them win? Thats just BS.

4) I believe Tex Winters did most of the coaching on that team, my point was that Phil manages the egos of superstars, which is important today.

As for the Lord "stuff", its the chorus to a crappy, old, country song that I happen to find humorous. Kind of the way old Godzilla movies are funny, cause they're really bad.

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Drop kick me Jesus through the goalposts of life,
Tumble end over end, neither left nor right.
Straight on ahead through the goalposts I'll go.
I've got the faith Lord, If you've got the toe.

 

Jackass has proved nothing. Let me answer your questions.

1. It would make perfect sense to go to Orlando to take on a challenge. If he is that great of a coach (which he isn't) he would look for a new challenge. Also, Krause would have gladly taken him back. Phil on his own chose to leave. That was well documented.

2. To take a team that was expected to compete for one of the worst records in NBA history to a .500 record one game from the playoffs is a PHENOMENAL job.

3. Kobe improved in the offseason, particularly on the defensive end. (although he is still attacked by players at times) Also, this was the first full season of those 3 playing together. It takes time to gel.

4. Jackson coming just so happened to coincide with the arrival of Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant. Jordan didn't start to win because of the arrival of Jackson- it was the arrival of that supporting cast like Dean mentioned.


Maybe Phil is a good coach. But I doubt it. All he has ever done is walked onto a team loaded with talent and won. I want to see him mesh together egos and improve a losing team before I buy that he's a good coach. Right now I think he is just a lucky arrogant coach who hasn't proved one thing. Let's see him prove himself by turning around a losing team rather than walking onto a talent-loaden team and winning. When he does something like what Doc Rivers did this year, then I'll admit he's a good coach. But not until then. Anyone of us probably could have coached the Bulls to those titles, especially with Winter and the assistants Jackson had. All Phil has done is walked onto teams loaded with talent and won. That doesn't prove a thing.

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Cheaters never win. Unless you play for LA that is.

 

Jackson is an okay coach. But he definently isnt as good as he thinks he is.

And he isnt getting called the greatest coach by everyone. He didnt get coach of the year this year did he? And who is coaching the olympics this year?

That is what I thought.

Still, Jackass did a good job of getting his players to actually focus. Anyone who can get Rodman to actually play good deserves some respect. And he got Shaq to play some defense agian. And he made Pippen look like one of the 50 greatest players.

But his greatest accomplishment:

He taught his teams to cheat very very well.


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What do you get when you cross a dinosaur with fireworks?

 

I heard an interesting thing on the radio from Michael Murphy about the Lakers a couple months back. Well 2 actually. Th first is that Michael Murphy was talking to Shaq. Shaq told him he matured as an NBA player over the offseason. Some of it was probably Jackson and more of it was Shaq. All the great players go through. It takes a while. It took a while for Hakeem. Also this has nothing to do with the subject but Murphy has watched Shaq shoot free throws and othe places they don't count, basically when they don't count, and it turns out Shaq makes most of them and it is just a mental block with him. Okay back to the subject. Why should he coach a team like Orlando? So he can prove that he can rebuild a team and not just take a team that is already overloaded with talent on a championship run. Rudy and Doc Rivers got raves around the league for rebuilding, Rudy got raves for switching systems. I'd like to see Jackson try to go to a different system. Also who can say with a straight face that Phil Jacksone believs in 7 year cycles. He knew the time for rebuilding had come and he wanted out just as fast as he could get out. If you remember they were going to make Tim Floyd assistant coach to Jackson had he wanted to saty on. Bottom line he picked his spots and while you can't blame him for that you can't judge his coaching by looking at the teams that are loaded with some of the better talent the NBA had to deliver.

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Puedlfor--

Have you been watching the playoffs, almost every Laker game has been nothing but terrible officiating. Having refs rule in your favor is helping.

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I AM SPARTACUS

 

Phil does a good job of stroking egos. He can do this very well. Fortunately for him he was the coach for MJ.
Would Phil be a championship coach without MJ? Nobody knows, but I would tend to say no because if he wasn't Chicago coach it seems unlikely to me that any team could have beat the Bulls or the Rockets. Especially since RT was the coach in Houston. Maybe he could have been the coach in SA last year and led them but I don't know.
Now to his positives: IF any other coach had an opportunity to coach the Lakers they would have done it. It was a job similar to the Bulls where they had the NBAs best player, another future star, and a cast of role players. Phil did what the other Lakers couldn't, he got Shaq to play D and the team to play together.
Phil has done a nice job in LA.

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So much for Jackass's ability to manage superstar egos :
Rice stands by wife's comments on Jackson
If he is really that great with managing egos (I think Jordan was more responsible for it), why isn't Rodman with the team this year? I am sure they could've used him.

Maybe VI was right (I doubt it though), maybe Jackass is playing with Rice's mind to try to get him to play harder, but is this the best approach? How many Rice-type of players would want to play for Jackson now, seeing how he treats his "supposed all-star" player such as Rice.

Jackass is lucky, he can afford to bench Rice because the Lakers are much better than the Pacers. I would really love to see all this come back and haunt him.


[This message has been edited by MoonBus (edited June 14, 2000).]

 

I'm sick of hearing about how no one could make Shaq, Kobe, etc. wind until Phil got there. Maybe it was because Shaq openly had no respect for any of his other coaches. If he was a true professional and dominant player as so many claim, he'd have worked his ass off for any coach, not just one who happened to win 6 championships.

As much as I hate Phil now, I used to like him. I think he did a marvelous job in Chicago managing Pippen and Rodman, even though #23 glaring at you would probably have something to do with it.

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Get your proper swirve on...visit www.swirve.com (coming in mid-June, for now visit www.eesite.com)

 

I don't like Phil Jackson but I gotta him props for handling the huge egos on the Lakers. Del Harris and Kurt Rambis virtually had the same team and couldn't get the job done. I would want to play for a guy like Phil. He sounds so weird yet interesting. I can't believe Shaq is actually going to win a ring tonight. He has come along way since Hakeem tore him up in 95.

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It's all good!

 

It must've been a little tough for Rambis since Kobe Brat wouldn't listen to what he was telling him. Also a blockbuster mid-season trade is never going to increase your chances in the playoffs. Add to that the fact that Phil didn't have to face Duncan and the Spurs, and Shaq just happens to be entering his prime. How can you say Del had the same team? Bryant wasn't 1/10th the player he is now when Del was coaching. Phil didn't do anything special.

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Too-Rye-Aye!