Freedom fighters or terrorists? You be the judge. http://news.excite.com/news/ap/011015/14/news-india-pakistan India Says It Shelled Pakistan Updated: Mon, Oct 15 2:35 PM EDT By BINOO JOSHI, Associated Press Writer JAMMU, India (AP) - A senior army official said Indian forces shelled Pakistani military posts across the cease-fire line Monday in Kashmir, destroying nearly a dozen posts in the heaviest fighting along the disputed border in 10 months. Pakistan said a woman was killed and 25 people injured in the assault. "We have fired heavily on Pakistani positions," Indian Brig. P.C. Das told The Associated Press. Speaking from the army base in Nagrota, near Jammu-Kashmir's winter capital of Jammu, Das said the shelling occurred in the frontier areas of Akhnoor and Mendar. Das said Indian forces fired artillery, rockets, mortars, grenade launchers and machine guns during the operation. A statement from the Army Media Center said the shelling had caused "widespread destruction." "The Indian army today launched successful, punitive operations against the Pakistani army's repeated involvement in abetting terrorist activities," the statement said. In Islamabad, a Pakistani army spokesman said Indian forces were shelling Pakistani positions in the Phuklian sector, 18 miles from the border city of Sialkot, injuring one woman and 25 others. The spokesman, who spoke on condition of anonymity, denied Indian claims that they destroyed 11 Pakistani posts. He accused India of targeting civilians. The two sides were still trading artillery fire in the Rawalakot sector, 100 miles south of Muzaffarabad, he said. Earlier, a Pakistani general officer at the army headquarters in Rawalpindi, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he checked all the reports and "no such incident happened." In Washington, President Bush said he was looking into the report. "I think it is very important that India and Pakistan stand down during our activities in Afghanistan, for that matter forever," Bush said. The Indian offensive came while Secretary of State Colin Powell was in Pakistan to discuss issues related to Kashmir and the U.S.-led attack on the Taliban. Powell is scheduled to arrive in India's capital, New Delhi, on Tuesday evening. "We have started punitive action. This follows a conscious decision," said Das, the brigadier-general staff of the Indian army's 16th corps. "This is part of the proactive approach adopted by Indian Army." He added, "We have completely destroyed their posts." Das said Pakistani soldiers had sneaked into Indian territory in Akhnoor on Monday night and damaged three power transformers. Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had hinted last week that India would take tough action to stem violence by Pakistan-based Islamic insurgents who have fought since 1989 to separate Kashmir from India. The fighting has killed at least 30,000 people. The Indian claim threatened to escalate tensions between the nuclear-armed South Asian neighbors. Their territorial dispute in Kashmir has led to two of the three wars India and Pakistan have fought in five decades. India says Pakistan arms, trains and funds Islamic militants based in Pakistan who carry out terrorist attacks and strikes on Indian military bases in the Indian-ruled port of Kashmir. Pakistan calls them "freedom fighters," says it has no control over their movement cross the border, and that it provides only moral, not material aid. Das said a total of 11 Pakistani posts had been demolished in the two areas, along the Line of Control, the 1972 cease-fire line that divides Kashmir between India and Pakistan. Das said details of Pakistani casualties were not known. He said such attacks could be launched again. "This action would be taken in future also if they make any attempt to push in infiltrators or plant improvised explosive devices in our territory," Das said. Late last month, five Islamic guerrillas and two soldiers died in fighting near the village of Mendar, 135 miles northwest of Jammu, the army said. Militants in Kashmir have stepped up their attacks since India and Pakistan failed to agree on a common approach to the Kashmir issue when their leaders held summit talks in July.
yeah... we (U.S.) are the only ones that can start **** (that edited word is a slang form of feces) in this world!! no one else can go around and bomb people, just us dammit! rH
my point is, dubya wants to go around and tell folks what to do and what not to do??? his quote from the article went like this, "I think it is very important that India and Pakistan stand down during our activities in Afghanistan, for that matter forever," Bush said. So dubya is now dictating foreign policy for Pakistan and India? rH
I think you're reading too much into his statement. My interpretation is that we don't need to be distracted by their confrontation at this time, especially since we need access to Pakistan's air space. The last part is implying that they should try to settle their dispute through negotiations, rather than blood shed.
I don't know, maybe Dubya is saying that for safety reasons for India nad Pakistan or that any actions that they do may interfere with our plans. But, if these two sovereign nations want to attack Afghanistan on their own, I say go ahead. Of course, the Taliban would have a much easier time retaliating against them than the US.
What I got from George Bush is basically don't use the U.S.'s quest to end terrorism as a chance to start a war. If people want to look at it as the U.S. dictating foreign policy so be it. The last thing the U.S. needs to for a bunch of idiots to start World War III all because the U.S. is trying to get Osama bin Laden and Al-Qaeda.
Al-Queda has been supporting their freakin jihad in Indian held Kashmir for quiet a while now. I am guessing that India has a right to protect its borders without being labeled an "idiot". If we have a right to avenge the death of 6000 people, I am pretty sure India is perfectly entitled to end violence committed by these so called freedom fighters which has led to 30,000 deaths! Pakistan needs to get a ****ing clue. Their ****ing goverment needs to realize that India is not going to give up Kashmir. They have already gotten their ass kicked in a couple of wars against India. I have nothing against Pakistani people as basically all of my friends are Pakistanis. But someone give me one ****ing reason as to why Pakistan needs Kashmir?!? The people of Kashmir have no wish to join Pakistan and even if they did so what? South Texas is pretty Hispanic I am guessing. If they have the sudden urge to join Mexico I highly doubt US would grant their wish. India needs to rid itself of these damn terrorist in Indian held Kashmir once and for all!
this is the reason: east timor didn't like indonesian control:UN helped them gain independence kashmir don't like Indian control...why ain't the UN getting them independence? now a lot of people who when you add incidents accross the world with the fact a lot of these people are suffering..feel that the "West" is wronging them. and hence these 'terrorists' or 'freedom fighters' whatever you want to call them are doing what they are doing. i certainly don't think pakistani government does this cause it cares about kashmiris..but simply so they can increase their freaking military expenses..however that doesn't diminish the fact that kashmiris HATE india because india screws them over in everything. and yes i have kashmiri friends so i feel confident saying that.
Well maybe the dumb ass UN can just divide up India into a couple of different countries huh? UN is the reason half the world is in a mess to begin with. Kashmiris dont want independence. Its the freakin holy warriors who have snuck in large numbers and are spreading their hate. So what if Kashmir is the only Muslim state in a predominantly Hindu India. I am a Muslim from India and I never felt discriminated. The Paki and Afghani terrorists are the ones demanding independence. How has India repeatedly screwd over Kashmiris? Before 1989 Kashmir was for the most part peaceful and was known as the "Switzerland of Asia" for crying out loud! Screw UN if they try to mess with Kashmir! What the hell is India suppose to do? Give up a part of their own country? Like I have stated in some other threads, there are numerous groups who want independence in India. Maybe we can give the Punjabis some land. Give some southern land away to the Sri Lankans perhaps. **** it lets go all the way and give away Bombay to the Pakistanis and Ladak to the Chinese!
Hence they should have a referrendum and see. if you don't think is right well the indonesians didn't think that taking away east timor was right either...once again have ONE policy not 10 different.
I am sorry RocksMillenium, but I disagree with your statement. US is fighting terrorism and India is doing the same. Infact, India has been fighting since a long time. The act of terror we saw few days back in US was happening there forever and India has been fighting. India has been requesting International community since a long time to recognize the problem of terrorism. But unfortunately it was not powerful enough nation to get their support. They are not using this to start a war. They are just protecting their BORDERS. I sincerely think that alone should not make them 'bunch of idiots' The title of this thread is 'Is Pakistan aiding terrorists???' My answer is "YES". I hope and pray this doesnot get overseen just by the fact they are helping United States NOW.
Referendum my ASS! I dont give a **** about Indonesia! I am not an Indonesian so what happened to their country has nothing to do with me. As for India, I'd like to see UN try to force a referendum upon them! Did the US let Texax secede peacefully? HELL NO! No respectful country is going to let a part of it go without putting up a fight. Pakistan needs to mind their own damn business! Why dont you tell me why Pakistan cares about Kashmir to begin with? Pakistan was given 1/3rd Kashmir to begin with. Are they satisfied? NOOOOOOOOOOOO! They agree to the rules set upon partition and now they are backing out of it?!?!?!?!? There was nothing wrong in Kashmir before the guerillas sneaked in around 1989. My mom used to go to Kashmir every year and never felt anything wrong prior to this date. Pakistan claims they only offer moral support to the terrorist in Kashmir. MORAL SUPPORT MY ****ING ASS! Its been proven that some of the terrorist found dead after fighting with Indian forces have had Pakistani identifications on them! Maybe Pakistan needs some more ass whopping from the Indian army to get some ****ing brains?!?!?!? Three wars they have fought since partition. Two of them over Kashmir. They have lost all three. They got their ass whooped again in Kargil just a few years back. Once again I have no animosity towards the Pakistani people. They have nothing to do with this. I have family over here in America who are from Pakistan and they could care less if Kashmir belonged to Pakistan or not! Its the manipulative government who are constantly trying to deter the minds of their citizens from the internal economic problems. The economy has never been that great in Pakistan and what better way to prevent public discontent then to spread Islamic propaganda about Kashmir?
Just like Israel and Palastine, this is all the damn 19th century british's doing. I say figure out how to go back in time and drop a nuke on Benjamin Disreali . Actualy, look... the real point is that everybody involved has a legitimate dispute with the other side but neither side will accept that any body but themselves is and has been wronged. Pakistan got involved because Indian Hindus were treating Indian Muslems like people from Mississippi treated Civil Rights activists in the 60's. That's a wrong. Unfortunately, the Muslems then decided that they were justified in force. That's their bad. Until one side or the other is willing to come out and say, "Oops, our bad. We're sorry. Will take care of our transgressions. Would you start taking care of yours please?" Nothing is going to be solved. Unfortunately, there is absolutely no chance of that happening. Rather the Israeli/Palastinian version, which goes, "You take care of all of your crap, and then we might think about considering whether we have done anything wrong." seems to be the attitude of the day. Anybody from India or Pakistan, or anyone else who has a 'side' here, if you feel completely justified in everything that everyone on your side has ever done since the end of British rule, please feel free to enumerate your case. I dare you.
Thats funny. I think I would know just a little bit about how Muslims are treated in India beint that I AM ONE! I was never harrassed, discriminated or anything of that sort when I used to live in India. Of course India is not completely blameless in this, but they are not the instigators. Pakistan is! I have already given my reason as to why I think Pakistan has been doing all this Kashmir crap. Another reason would be that Kashmir used to be a big time tourist attraction before all of this stuff started. But I agree the British are the ones that started this entire mess. They are the ones that made Jinnah feel as if Muslims would never be safe in India.
How old are you? Were you around at the end of WWII? Can you provide me with any evidence which counters this? Which more or less is a standard, accepted account of the way things went down when the British left (I do apologise, however, as I wrote Hindu, whereas it should have been Sikh). Lets go to a university library. If you can find information from an impartial source that provides an account which differs significantly from this account, I will provide oral sex to each and every member of this BBS. You are wrong. Borders were arbitrarily implimented and people were killed, abused, and mistreated if they were different.
I knew this question would come up. I should have stated earlier that I am currently 23 years old. I moved to US in 1989 when I was around 11. Yeah what does a kid know about discrimination you would say. Well lets say that my parents, my grandparents and my family living in India have not felt undue discrimination because we are Muslims. Also I never stated that people werent killed during partition. Of course many people were killed. Partition was by no means a joyous event. My point is that Kashmir is not Pakistans! They have 1/3 or Kashmir in their control and India is not sending in "freedom fighters" to spread terrorism in their part of Kashmir. Why cant Pakistan do the same thing. People in Kashmir just want to be left alone. Who wouldnt though? They could care less about whether they were independent, part of Pakistan or part of India. But of course the rest of India is not going to succumb to terroristic threats and willingly give up its land.
And of course, when Pakistan held Bangladesh should they have done done the role reversal and "rid itself of these damn terrorist in..." Pakistani held East Pakistan "...once and for all!" Or was it somehow different because India was sponsoring the rebels in the oither's country?
