Riley seems to change positions on this question every other day. If he's rebuilding, then here's a couple of trades that might help him & us, as well. Trade #1 Houston sends Rice/Mobley/Griffin/next year's #1 pick (top 9 protected?) to Miami. Houston sends Cato to NY. Miami sends Jones/Grant/#5 pick to NY. Miami sends Rasual Butler to Houston. NY sends Thomas/Houston/Knight(expiring contract)/#9 pick to Houston. NY sends Eisley/next year's unprotected #1 pick to Miami. Houston gets a pure shooter (albeit, a very expensive one) in Houston, a dominant PF with a strong low post game in Thomas, an intriguing young SF in Butler (started out strong last year, but faded down the stretch), the #9 pick to select a big man or PG, & knight's expiring contract to play the 17 or less mpg that Cato played last year. If they're truely rebuilding, Miami gets Mobley to replace Jones (same production for half the money & 4 years younger), a young up & coming PF in Griffin to replace Grant (that's still on his rookie contract), a very good veteran PG in Eisley, Rice's expiring contract, & two #1 picks for next year to go with their own. NY gets 3 veteran starters in Grant, Jones, & Cato to pair with Sprewell & the #5 pick to get TJ Ford, whom they are reportedly in love with. Trade #2 Toronto sends Davis/Montross/#4 pick to NY. Miami sends Carter(expiring contract) to NY. Miami sends Jones/Ellis(expiring contract)/#5/#33 pick to Toronto. Miami sends Rasual Butler to Houston. NY sends Houston/Thomas/#9 pick to Houston. NY sends Eisley/#30 pick (1st pick in 2nd round) to Miami. NY sends the rights to swap #1 picks next year to Toronto. Houston sends Taylor/Mobley/next year's #1 pick to Miami. Houston sends Cato to NY. Toronto trades a disgruntled 35 year old PF for a slightly younger SG in Jones, gets rid of Montross (whom they've been trying to trade), picks up the #33 pick, gets the right to choose the higher #1 pick between NY's & their own next year, & only drop down one spot in this year's draft. They could then trade the #5 pick/Murray(whom they've also been trying to trade) to Memphis for the #13 pick/Swift (Memphis is real high on Pietrus). Again, if they're truely rebuilding, Miami gets Mobley to replace Jones (same production for half the money & 4 years younger), a young veteran PF in Taylor to platoon with Grant that can stretch the floor, a very good veteran PG in Eisley, the #30 pick, & a #1 pick for next year to go with their own. Also, as was reported in an earlier news article, by trading away this year's guaranteed #1 pick, Miami will have between $8-9 million in available cap space to pursue free agents. NY gets 2 veteran front line starters in Davis & Cato to pair with Sprewell, & the #5 pick to get TJ Ford, whom they are reportedly in love with. Houston gets a pure shooter (albeit, a very expensive one) in Houston, a dominant PF with a strong low post game in Thomas, an intriguing young SF in Butler (started out strong last year, but faded down the stretch), & the #9 pick to select a big man or PG. Here's the articles that got me to thinking about these trades. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/6137771.htm But can Riley unearth a player of that caliber in a draft that is somewhat deep but lacks many sure-fire prospects who teams believe can contribute right away? That's the ultimate question, and probably the main reason the Heat is entertaining trade offers from teams hoping to acquire a higher draft pick. In fact, the phones are already ringing. Knowing it could pick later than fifth if anyone agrees to a trade, the Heat is developing contingency plans to make a later pick. ''We know at [No.] 5 and at just about every other pick the two or three players who would be available at that spot,'' Riley said. A report Friday indicated the Knicks, who covet Texas point guard T.J. Ford, want to make a move from No. 9 that would put them in position to draft the sophomore. New York reportedly has contacted Miami about obtaining the Heat's pick in a deal that could net Miami a current player or a combination of later picks. ''There's a lot of interest,'' Riley said. ``There's been a lot of discussion from [No.] 3 on down. ``. . . We're considering everything. We're not done with the [decision] process. The process is getting more and more exciting from the standpoint that it's a very valuable position that we're in, and the academic part of it is that we'll be picking if nothing else comes up that really opens our eyes. Over the next four or five days, all of the preliminary discussions will start coming to a head. Real offers will be made.'' And that's when the real decisions will begin. Yes, Miami will consider all possibilities, but it will be deliberate in its decision making. The Heat is wary of making a knee-jerk reaction if a can't-miss prospect is unavailable at No. 5. In Riley's opinion, in nine of the past 10 trades when veterans were swapped for lottery picks, the teams that acquired the draft picks came out on top. ''It would have to be an absolute perfect scenario,'' Riley said. ``There are a number of them, but it would have to be an absolute perfect scenario for us. It would help us talent-wise, and with flexibility. . . . We have to move cautiously, but also aggressively.'' http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-heat21jun21,0,183855.story?coll=sfla-sports-front The team's rebuilding calendar extends beyond next season. Foremost, Riley pointed to this as the first draft where the team is operating in a rebuilding mode. He said when Caron Butler was selected last June, it was with the idea of completing a playoff contender. Riley said that plan was sidetracked Sept. 5, when it was learned center Alonzo Mourning would be sidelined for the season with kidney illness. "This pick is the first step to rebuilding the franchise," he said. "That's the way it is. Caron's pick was not rebuilding. This is the first time we're making a choice that's going to help rebuild this team."
Wow, that's the best 3-way proposal I've seen in a loooooong time. I'm not positive that New York would do it, but I'm pretty sure the other teams would. If that works under the cap, great work, man.
this my first post ! anyways trade no. 1 is a great trade, good job!a trade that makes sence ! im shocked someone has it figured out how to be a gm,lol!
this my first post ! anyways trade no. 1 is a great trade, good job!a trade that makes sence ! im shocked someone has it figured out how to be a gm,lol!
i don't think trade #1 is that bad but i still don't do it. question about it though, are we allowed to trade our pick next year since we traded this one? i don't know if we get out on a loophole or something but you can't trade consecutive first round picks.
Regarding the first trade, I don't think we get worse, but I'm not sure we improve. The reason I don't like it because, we can simply send Mo Taylor and Cato to the Heat for Brian Grant, or Cato and Mobley for Eddie Jones. Both those trades would be better for us, and really, Kurt Thomas wouldn't be able to do much at PF, much less PF in the West. Just my opinion though..
I can understand coveting Brian Grant because he has a decent touch and is a ferocious rebounder. But, jeez, what is the fascination with Eddie Jones? He's past his prime and doesn't have that great a shot and his defense is five years past being solid. Let Mobley do the slashing if you want a slasher! Cat is already a better defensive player than Jones even without JVG's tutelage.
I'd say no to both trades. Let JVG work with the guys on the existing roster first and let's see what he can get out of them.
Here, this should help explain it for you. http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#69 In addition, teams are restricted from trading away future first round draft picks in consecutive years. This is called the "Ted Stepien Rule." Stepien owned the Cavs from 1980-83, and made a series of bad trades that cost the Cavs several years' first round picks. The trades, as columnist Chris Young put it, "amounted to giving up Manhattan for a bag of beads." As a result of Stepien's ineptitude, teams are now prevented from making trades which might leave them without a future first-round draft pick in consecutive years. This rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 99-00 season, then teams can trade their 2000 first round pick without regard to whether they had a 1999 pick, since their 1999 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can't trade away both their 2000 and 2001 picks, since both are future picks. Teams sometimes work around this rule by trading first round picks in alternate years. In addition, teams are required to have only a first round pick, and not necessarily their first round pick. So teams may trade away their own future picks in consecutive years if they have another team's first round pick in one of those years.
I'm torn on this issue. On one hand you are absolutely correct & in fact, that may very well be what the club does. However, on the other hand, we all know Mobley as being more of a ball-hog than most SG's & that we need a more dominate PF with a strong low post game. This trade would get us both a pure shooting SG & a dominating PF. To top it off, we'd get the 9th pick this year, instead of what I hope & believe will be a non lottery pick next year. But, that's just my opinion.
Hmmm, it sounds like all the parties are open to a deal being made. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/94517p-85698c.html Ford in future? Spree the key By FRANK ISOLA DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER The Knicks appear committed to drafting Texas point guard T.J. Ford and deporting Latrell Sprewell. One could very well lead to the other. Sprewell has been available for the past 13 months and his status hasn't changed as the Knicks get ready to enter Thursday's NBA draft. Knicks president Scott Layden has talked to both the Raptors and Heat about swapping draft positions and players. Toronto and Miami will select fourth and fifth, respectively. The Knicks own the ninth overall selection. There have been rumors about Sprewell and Miami's Eddie Jones being included in a deal. Another theory has Sprewell going to Toronto for a pair of average backups, Jerome Williams and Lamond Murray. In both scenarios the Knicks would move up in the draft and then select Ford. "Scott is no fool," one league official said. "If he's trading Latrell he knows he has to get an All-Star caliber player in return. Otherwise, he'd be run out of town." Toronto is looking for a veteran player to complement Vince Carter, which is why Sprewell would be a perfect fit. The same league official believes that Sprewell could be dealt to the Raptors if the Knicks were to receive center Antonio Davis in return. The Knicks talked to the Raptors about a deal for Davis four months ago, but it fell through. With Antonio McDyess out indefinitely, adding Davis would upgrade the Knicks' front line by allowing Kurt Thomas to move to power forward. The concern the Knicks have about the 34-year-old Davis is that he appeared in just 53 games last season and had arthroscopic knee surgery last month. Allan Houston had similar surgery two weeks ago. But Davis is a skilled big man, which is rare in the Eastern Conference. After missing out on the playoffs in each of the past two seasons, Layden realizes he has to make a move to put the Knicks into the second season. Or at the very least Layden has to do something to demonstrate to the Knicks' fan base that the team is progressing. It would be hard to see progress in trading Sprewell for a couple of journeymen with fat contracts. The Knicks are still trying to dig themselves out from moving Patrick Ewing for expensive spare parts. Layden has shown in the past that he is not about to give away Sprewell, who will earn $28 million over the next two years. Layden could have dealt Sprewell to Milwaukee for Glenn Robinson last summer but balked. Layden also has a history of making deals on draft night. Last year, he traded the draft rights to Nene Hilario as well as Marcus Camby and Mark Jackson to Denver for McDyess and the Nuggets' first-round pick. Layden used the pick to select point guard Frank Williams. The trade backfired when McDyess went down with a season-ending knee injury in October.
Alright, so you want to trade? Let me come up with something that I think is not COMPLETELY unrealistic (I'll explain why), but at the same time benefits our team way more than what has been suggested so far. Let me go crazy and suggest two separate trades (but they only work if both can be done together)... TRADE NO. 1 Houston trades: Rice, M. Norris, Houston's No. 1 draft pick in 2004 Houston receives: Eddie Jones, Miami's second-round picks in 2004, 2005 Miami trades: Eddie Jones, Miami's second-round picks in 2004, 2005 Miami receives: Rice, M. Norris, Houston's No. 1 draft pick in 2004 Why does Houston do it? Jones is a great defensive player who can shoot the three and who can play both the 2 and the 3. Houston gets rid of Moochie who is overpaid. We need to take on a big contract, but we get a great complementary player for Yao (kicks out the ball to Jones who spots up or cuts) and Francis (Jones covers some of Francis' defensive weaknesses). Getting back Miami's two second-round picks for the next two years is a bit like buying a lottery ticket: One never knows if one might come away with a prize - like Arenas or Mobley - in the second round. Losing the first-round pick should not be that big of a deal since we could fully expect the Rockets to NOT be in the lottery with the roster they would get out of these trades. Why does Miami do it? Miami needs to rebuild. They are getting some big contracts off the books, but they might as well prepare for a clean sweep. Rice is in the last year of his contract and the salary-cap relief will allow them to sign another big-name free agent in 2004. They don't really have a halfway decent point guard. Moochie has sometimes shown flashes of playmaking skills. He is probably overpaid, but his contract is much less of a burden than Jones' contract which runs just as long. Jones has had some serious injury issues last season and he is already older than 30, with a very fat contract that still runs a few years. They could build up Moochie as a fan favorite (which he was in Houston at the beginning) and still try to get a better point guard later and then use Moochie as a backup. Also, they will get Houston's No. 1 draft pick in 2004 (only top 3 protected), which could be of great value IF Houston does not make the playoffs. TRADE NO. 2 Houston trades: Mobley, Griffin, Cato, Houston's first-round pick in 2006 (lottery-protected) Houston receives: Brand (sign-and-trade with salary matching the combined salaries of Mobley, Griffin, Cato, if it is required that Houston throws in another role player, so be it), Jaric, Clippers' second-round pick in 2004 L.A. Clippers trade: Brand, Jaric, Clippers' second-round pick in 2004 L.A. Clippers receive: Mobley, Griffin, Cato, Houston's first-round pick in 2006 (lottery-protected) Why does Houston do it? Houston is giving up three players who could start for many teams, with Mobley being close to being an all-star and Griffin (still) a potential superstar at some point. Even Cato has developed into a solid backup last season, which does not let his fat contract appear that outrageous after all (especially compared to contracts of the likes of Calvin Booth, etc. - centers are often overpaid). So that's a lot to lose. However, Brand is the big prize here. Even if Griffin ever fully realizes his potential, it would be very hard to argue that he will ever be better than Brand. A starting lineup of Francis, Jones, Posey, Brand, Yao would be...amazing. Defense (Yao's, Brand's shotblocking and rebounds, Jones' and Francis' steals), hustle (Jones, Posey), offensive firepower (Yao, Brand, Francis, and Jones)...and remember, you'd still have Mo Taylor for some instant offense off the bench. You'd try to draft some huge backup center who doesn't need to be super-skilled, or you'd give Collier a 2-year extension at the minimum. Jaric would be very important in this trade. He is a guy who can definitely pass the ball and he is also a steal machine like Jones. People do not fully see his upside yet, but he will be a very good player in this league. Losing the first-round pick should not be that big of a deal since we could fully expect the Rockets to NOT be in the lottery with the roster they would get out of this trade. Why do the Clippers do it? Sterling is cheap. He will not be able to keep Brand, Odom, Miller, Olowokandi. Okay, it is almost certain already that Olowokandi and Miller are gone, so one could think he will shell out something close to the max for both Brand and Odom. However, that would be a first for this owner - plus, it would leave him without a decent center option, but with a whole bunch of power forwards (he also still has Wilcox, Ely). With Mobley, he gets someone who can shoot and is almost an all-star and who is friends with Odom, so he would have some kind of positive-minded nucleus there. The clippers would still need a point guard, but with Odom handling the ball a lot of the time, that would be less of an issue. They could also look at veterans or getting one from the draft (cheap, as Sterling likes it). Since Olowokandi is leaving, the Clippers will have a gaping hole at the center position. Cato would fill that hole. Griffin (still) has tons of upside and is a lot cheaper than Brand. Bottomline is: Sterling would lock up good, potentially great players for a few years without having to pay a lot of money. He could have a young nucleus of Odom, Mobley, Griffin, Cato, Maggette, Richardson, maybe Wilcox or Ely could also elevate their games - this might not be a team that will win tons of games, but it should be entertaining to watch. If they add a veteran point guard, they might actually win some games, too. So where does this all leave us? We would have a lineup where every position except SF would be covered with former or current all-stars. All important players would be locked up for a long time. We would lose our first-round picks for 2004 and 2006, but that does not seem like a big deal, since they would both be 15-23 anyway - might as well use some of those second-rounders 24-30 we would get, if we are lucky enough, we could get some decent players there, still. We would have the right mix of experienced players and young talent. I believe that by doing these trades, we could compete for a championship right away. Rockets' Lineup: PG: Francis, Jaric, maybe some veteran as a backup with the exception or part of it (Darrell Armstrong?) SG: Jones, Jaric, Posey, Hawkins SF: Posey, Nachbar, Hawkins, some cheap veteran 3-point shooter (maybe ex-Rocket Tracy Murray if he still has some gas left in the tank) PF: Brand, Taylor C: Ming, Collier, some 7-foot stiff from the draft or free agency (two sandwiches?), maybe Taylor could get some backup minutes here as well (How is that for a long post?! Take that, Macbeth .)
Sir Jackie Chiles, I like it. However, we'd have to find a way to acquire a #1 pick for this year or next year. The CBA won't allow us to trade consecutive #1's away, unless you acquire another team's #1, or the current year has passed (does that make sense?). Perhaps, Miami could trade the #5 pick/Ellis(expiring contract)/Carter(ditto) to Memphis (they want Pietrus) for Swift/Battier/#27 pick. Miami could send us the #27 pick & then we could do the deal. I guess we'd have to give one or both of the 2nd round picks back to them to make it work.
Well, then we could just give Miami our 2005 No. 1 pick and the Clips our No. 1 pick in 2007. Problem solved.
That might work, but do you really think Miami would want to wait that long to gain an extra #1 pick? True, they do get some serious cap relief, but if they were able to get Swift/Battier this year & our #1 pick next year to combine with their's, they could make a dramatic turn around in a very short period of time. They'd have a nice young nucleus of players to build around in Swift, Battier, & Butler. With our's & their #1 picks next year they could package them & move up into the top 8-10 picks, or higher. Throw in the FA's (Brad Miller/Payton/ZO/Andre Miller/Kandi/Arenas) they'd be able to get with their reported $8-9 million in cap space this year & you've got a contender.
