Disclaimer: I hate to even start a thread on this, but the only other appropriate ones I could dig up were really, really old and I don't want to derail the more active ones about music. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question: I hear about guys like Lauv recording albums on their laptops and going on to become rich and famous, and I see all the software and equipment out there today to record with, not to mention online courses and stores selling stuff. Is there money to be made making music these days? How about years from now? Would you pursue a career in music these days? I'm asking mainly because of a young family member that's got some talent but is sort of lost as to what path to take post HS. I'm curious myself if I could someday carve out some sort of modest living creating soundtracks or something in my old age (provided I first learn how, lol). It seems most big name artists make their money performing live these days. How do small acts and unknowns make money if they're not performing in front of others??? I know instruments and recording equipment cost money. Are most people doing this just as a hobby? Is the industry overcrowded to the point that the average person is going to make more cranking out YouTube videos on how to play/sing/whatever, and/or maybe giving lessons, than they'll ever make actually making music? I'm curious what people think. I'm going to keep doing my thing, as I'm enjoying it. Just wondering if I should dial back my spending and expectations, and if I should or shouldn't steer my family member in this direction. Guess that's a lot more than one question. I probably won't be around much the next couple days, but I appreciate any insight anyone can provide.
Revenue is less from the music sales nowadays. Unless a big label, lot of smaller artists also don't do physical CDs anymore; digital only. The streaming services pay but not very much unless songs are hits. Certain services like Tidal I think pay a bit more than Spotify and others. Lot of artists make their music available on as many platforms as possible. There's also sites like BandCamp, which indy artists use. Much of the money comes from merch and live shows. With live shows taking a hit because of covid. With the digital age, barrier to entry is much lower. Not everyone is grinding selling mix tapes off of the trunk of their car. That said to pop-off, need good music, and luck. Fan engagements and social media interactions seems big these day. If say a clip of his song pops off on TikTok, these things could bump his stream sales. Other things like; staying independent or signing with a label. Sometimes being independent means more money in the long term. (keeping the masters). It's entirely possible the young relative holds a day job, but grind making music off hours and doing weekend gigs.
Yeah, I've heard streaming sites like Spotify and Amazon Music pay like $.006 for streaming songs (if that) and you're not going to make much from YouTube without an audience and millions of views. Which is a depressing thought, to say the least. I'm thinking you've got to really work social media if you want to be the next big thing, be young & marketable, and/or have connections. I hope I'm wrong!
disclaimer: although ive been playing in bands for almost 30 years, ive never been a professional musician or made real money doing it. but heres my thoughts...i definitely have pondered these questions and i got some opinions - haha. as far as your young family member...what do they play? instrument and style? what are their goals with music? do they want to be a live performer or work on the studio/production side? do they write their own material and want to pursue that? every musician would love nothing more than to be able to make music for a living, but very few actually manage it. there are thousands and thousands of people out there doing this stuff...maybe the top 1% to 3% are actually making a living doing it. if you do want it you have to be willing to go all in (nothing to fall back on) and you have to be willing to be poor. also, i would argue that if your primary goal is to make money then you shouldnt be doing music...there are much more efficient and easy ways to make money. you do it first b/c you are passionate about it. you absolutely do not do it for the money. i would bet that 80%-90% of bands out there are money losers. most musicians have to pay to be in a band. people reading this who play in bands know...you pay for your rehearsal space, your personal equipment, gas for road shows, parking for downtown gigs, ect. even on a local level, most bands doing original music dont earn enough money gigging to recoup those expenses. like i said, ive been playing in bands for almost 30 years and its really only in the last decade that ive been in projects that havent cost me money to be in. i play original music though...again, the cover bands are where the real money is at. the friends i have who are full-time professional musicians earn income by performing live. and that means playing gigs that you wont always be into (cover bands, backing up local singer-songwriters, being a hired-gun). you might not feel creatively fulfilled, but you can make money going that route. original music is more difficult to make money doing, unless you are willing to tour relentlessly. thats the other thing...you have to be willing to travel if you really want to make a living in music. i would think that making money on the producer/studio side would be more challenging and less of a stable income. gigging musicians who play 4-5 nights a week can rely on a steady income. a producer type has to wait around for jobs. its also harder to get yourself out there b/c youre isolated in a studio instead of being in clubs, where there are more networking opportunities. i guess you can network and build relationships online these days, but i still think in the music world its about being involved in whatever scene youre trying to be a part of. physical networking. going to shows. meeting other bands/musicians. i have multiple albums that ive performed on or co-written that are up on streaming services and ive never gotten a penny from them. i have a song that for some reason has like over 10k plays (maybe a blog picked it up?) and ive never gotten anything. i have actually made money licensing music, but its a very small amount and few-and-far between. for example, a few years ago i licensed a song for a dance troupe to use and got $200. the band im in now has licensed songs to a couple movies and tv shows (before i was in the band) and they get checks once a year for around $15-$50. people are no longer willing to pay for music...albums have no value anymore. as an example, a band i was in a few years ago self-produced and released a CD. we started off selling them for $10, but wanted to move them quicker so lowered to $5. we still sold the same amount. then whenever we played gigs with a tipjar i would tell people to take a cd if they put even one dollar in the jar. one time a dude put a $20 in there and i tried to give him a CD but he didnt want it. i couldnt give it away. i live in austin and there are lots of bitter/delusional musicians here...people that feel entitled to an audience or money simply because they are a musician. people that feel like they "deserve" to make a living as a musician. but thats not the way it works. if it was then everyone would want to be a musician. many people out there dont understand that you dont "deserve" to get paid for your hobby...haha. to me, being a musician or in a band is one of the ultimate forms of free-market capitalism. if youre good you will draw an audience and get paid. if youre boring you will not.
From an outsiders pov, people on yt sell themselves as a brand. If you're into growing your craft, you can network, collaborate and ultimately get more feedback ajd experience. Join some subreddits with people like you. Then you can ask what some classes or gear is worth it in the long run. Might hurt your ego, but getting your music out there and watching people react is usually the best crucible for growth.
You can play in a city symphony or orchestra. Someone here plays piano at bars for a living. Someone here made a rock opera. I know someone that gives trombone lessons.
I was hoping you might chime in. Thank you for your response, jo mama. I don't have high expectations for myself, but was hoping to hear better news for my family member. She's a young kid, 17, who's struggled quite a bit in school and with home life. She's had some singing lessons and can whisper-sing pretty well like Billie Eilish (lol). Don't know if she got more in the tank than that, as I've never heard it, but others in my family think so (of course, you know family... ). She took guitar lessons before the pandemic hit from a local musician and she outright floored me after just two months of spotty practice with her acoustic. I don't remember what songs she played in front of us, as they weren't things I listened to. I want to say she did some folkish type stuff, maybe some Taylor Swift or Elle King, but I can't remember. I'm not suggesting she's got "the chops" to be a great or anything like that. She's just a kid that had a little interest, and happened to pick things up fast to begin with, like many her age do. The last I heard she wasn't practicing much, unfortunately, and I would bet you anything my interest level in learning to play music is higher than hers, but I'm not sure. Maybe that's a blessing in disguise. I guess I'm back to the drawing board with regards to her, dammit. Thanks for your honesty. I wish you success.
No. And I'm getting old on top of that. I thought I might be lucky to break even. Guess I'll have to rethink that as well.
Instead of a heartbreaking backstory, you're trying to do a heartbreaking crackstory? The numbers are clear - I'll buy your album.
im here to crush your dreams! haha. seriously though, i probably came off as poo-pooing the aspirations you have for your family member and yourself, but i really dont want to do that. just being realistic about what ive seen and about what your expectations should be. music is for everyone and i encourage anyone who wants to play to get out there and do it! create some new s***! have fun and enjoy the process! theres nothing to go back to the drawing board with. its a 17 year old kid who recently started playing...honestly, its pretty early to be talking about a career as a professional musician. she is just starting out and has a way to go before you should even think of persuing a career or becoming a famous recording artist. and as the adult, id say be careful with putting big expectations on her...its the exact same as kids in sports. some parents out there tell their kids they are the greatest ever and will become professionals. they build up all these false expectations in their kids and it puts all kinds of pressure on them and can take the fun out of it. dont force it...if she wants to play music she will play. i have a cousin who decided she wanted to be a singer-songwriter so her mom put her in vocal, piano and guitar lessons and was going around telling everyone how talented she was and how she was going to get discovered and become a star. of course it never happened and my cousin doesnt play anymore. i dont really know that my cousin enjoyed it and i only heard her play once...i heard my aunt talking about her all the time though. id just ask her what, if anything, she wants to do with music. maybe she just likes playing in her room and doesnt want to be a performer or songwriter. and thats great! but if she wants to play live then she can be doing things right now to get there. work up a set of songs. learn them, play them and when you think youre ready find a place to go play. being underage will keep her out of bars/clubs, but maybe a coffee shop, restaurant or other non-club. she needs experience as a performer. even better is if she has a friend or friends who are also into music and maybe they could start a band together. or she finds a group to play with. again, it all depends on what she wants to do...maybe she isnt interested in playing in a band. does she want to write songs? the best way to learn how to do it is just to do it. learn songs you like, figure out the arrangements and how they do it. and then apply that template to your own thing. and home recording is easy these days. if yall want to get her set up all you need is an interface and a decent mic. theres plenty of free programs out there (DAWs). she could be set up for recording for a little over $200. all those soundcloud mumble rappers and the lordes of the world got discovered b/c they were creating stuff and putting it online, often with free programs. so basically, if she is serious about perusing music there are things she can be doing right now as a 17 year old kid... 1) working up a set (30 minutes to one hour) of music. maybe its all covers...maybe she has originals she can work in. get gigs wherever she can. if she wants to play in a band she needs to network...find like-minded people with similar goals. 2) writing and recording. 3) set up soundcloud or bandcamp page for your recordings. facebook, instagram, social media. promote yourself, even if its just within your friend group. as for you, if you want to do soundtrack stuff you can always find film students looking for music. you wont get paid, but it will allow you to get experience and maybe ever parlay it into something that will get you paid. or find some silent film stuff on youtube and create some music for it. build up a resume of your work. its not my world, but im sure there are groups online where you can find likeminded people and maybe even make some connections.
