1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

is it a good idea to allow concealed handguns in bars?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by BetterThanEver, Jun 28, 2009.

  1. BetterThanEver

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2007
    Messages:
    9,931
    Likes Received:
    189
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090628/ap_on_re_us/us_guns_in_bars

    Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

    By AMANDA LEE MYERS, Associated Press Writer Amanda Lee Myers, Associated Press Writer – Sun Jun 28, 12:26 pm ET

    PHOENIX – There was a time in the Wild West that cowboys had to check their guns before they could pull up a bar stool for a drink — rules that protected against the saloon gunfights that came to define the frontier era in places like Arizona.

    But a bill moving through the Arizona Legislature has some bar owners fearful that the state is turning back the clock to the Old West. Lawmakers are considering a bill that would allow anyone with a concealed-weapons permit to bring a handgun into bars and restaurants serving alcohol.

    The bill gives bars discretion to keep gun-toting patrons out, and anyone with a weapon would not be allowed to drink. But the bill has angered bar owners who believe booze and guns are a recipe for disaster.

    "This might be one of the stupidest things that I have heard of," said Mike Nelson, who owns Pomeroy's bar in Phoenix and plans to post a sign on his front door outlawing guns in his bar as soon as possible. "Can you think of a single reason guns and alcohol should be intertwined?"

    The bill is part of a nationwide push by the National Rifle Association. Georgia passed a similar law in 2008, as did Tennessee earlier this year in becoming the 40th state to allow bar or restaurant patrons to carry guns.

    "These laws are common sense," said NRA spokeswoman Rachel Parsons. "Restaurants are not immune to criminal activity. Law-abiding people — regardless of whether they're in restaurants, cars or homes — they should be able to protect themselves against criminal attack."

    One of the bill's sponsors, Republican Rep. John Kavanagh, said it's about time Arizona passes such a law, and that the most important thing is that people carrying guns into bars aren't allowed to drink.

    "You don't want intoxicated people with weapons, and this bill continues the prohibition against drinking and carrying," said Kavanagh, a retired police officer in New York and New Jersey. "What is the problem with having a gun in a delicatessen where someone is having a beer with their pastrami two tables away?"

    The law would only apply to people with concealed-weapons permits because lawmakers say that type of gun owner has to pass a background check and take an eight-hour course to get their permits, and are therefore safer. More than 127,000 Arizonans have concealed-weapons permits, according to the Arizona Department of Public Safety.

    Arizonans are also allowed to openly carry guns — on a belt or holster, for example. But those people would still not be allowed in bars or restaurants serving alcohol if they're armed.

    The bill has been approved by the Senate and is now before the House; Republican Gov. Jan Brewer would still have to OK it.

    Marc Peagler, owner of the Silver Spur Saloon Restaurant in Cave Creek outside Phoenix, said he's in favor of the legislation and sees some marketing potential in it.

    "I look at it this way — let's just say for a moment you're a crook or a thief," Peagler said. "Are you going to break into a place where you know that there might be 10 to 15 people who are armed? I wouldn't do that."

    Peagler, a gun owner himself, said people with concealed-weapons permits aren't people to be concerned about.

    "People who carry concealed weapons for the most part are your general law-abiding citizens, and the people who are going to break the law are going to do it no matter what laws we have out there," he said. "If somebody has been drinking and they have a weapon in the car, they're just going to go out and get it."

    Frank Murray, owner of Seamus McCaffrey's Irish Pub & Restaurant in downtown Phoenix, said he opposes the law and will prohibit his customers from coming in armed.

    "It's kind of like the Wild West days," he said. "We've got enough nuts out on the street walking around with guns. We don't need them in places with alcohol and families."

    The Arizona Licensed Beverage Association threw its support behind the bill after some compromises were made this week. The Arizona Restaurant Association has taken a neutral stance, but in previous years came out against most bills that would have allowed guns in bars and restaurants with alcohol.

    This year's bill is one of several measures loosening gun laws moving through the Arizona Legislature.

    In May, the House overwhelmingly approved a bill that would permit gun owners to keep a weapon out of sight in a locked vehicle in a parking lot or garage. That would override employers that ban weapons on their property.

    Last week, a Senate committee approved a bill that would allow Arizonans to carry concealed weapons without state permits, despite objections from law enforcemen
     
  2. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 1999
    Messages:
    23,140
    Likes Received:
    10,208
    No.

    Next stupid question...
     
  3. thelasik

    thelasik Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Messages:
    3,347
    Likes Received:
    72
    Beyond idiotic.
     
  4. Mr. Brightside

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    2,148
    I don't see what can possibly go wrong. If some thug wants to come and steal my tall boy I paid 5 bucks for, I sure as hell ain't gonna go down without a fight.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 1999
    Messages:
    41,683
    Likes Received:
    16,209
    Ummm...

    On a separate note, isn't this already the way it is in Texas? Or are bars an exception?
     
  6. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 1999
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    5,491
    ROXRAN faints.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Refman

    Refman Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Messages:
    13,674
    Likes Received:
    312
    In Texas, if an establishment makes more than half of its revenue from the sale of alcohol, you cannot carry a handgun there.

    Handguns and alcohol are not a good mix. I believe strongly in gun rights. I support the idea of CHLs. I do not believe that it should be legal to carry in a bar.
     
  8. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    35,986
    Likes Received:
    36,840
    I always wondered if those older dudes at my beer softball league in Webster, TX, could carry concealed handguns. Some people got really wasted at these games, and I could just see the third basement pulling a colt our of the back of his shorts when the winning run turned the corner for home.

    Man I miss those games... and now I'm one of those old guys.
     
  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    65,297
    Likes Received:
    33,024
    . . . . as with most things

    IF THE PERSON IS YOU . . yea
    IF IT IS THE OTHER . . . then No
    is how some folx think

    Rocket River
     
  10. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2000
    Messages:
    21,945
    Likes Received:
    6,696
    liquor + guns sound like a match made in heaven.
     
  11. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    14,585
    Likes Received:
    1,888
    The bill supporters have the requirement of not drinking if you bring a gun in; but if you don't plan on drinking, why are you there? I imagine the bar owner's insurance premiums are going up; and now he needs a bouncer.
     
  12. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,251
    Likes Received:
    2,033
    I have a friend who's a bouncer at an upscale establishment. I know if that establishment were to allow concealed handguns he'd quit immediately. Upscale does NOT = classy. The same ingredients for conflict in a grimy bar are there in upscale places too.

    When big money is involved it invites another kind of shark culture. People with entitlement issues, people who are well connected to authorities and they feel they can get away with a lot of stuff. It attracts beautiful women, the kind of desired 8.5 through 10 women that feel they can do no wrong and test their limits. They may go with a husband or boyfriend but they're engaging in behavior with other men that makes their men suspicious. Of course causing riff raff between the guys...And then there's that "douchebag" culture full of roided up meatheads and ultimate fighter wannabes that start raging over anything.

    I dont trust those people with a gun that much more than anyone in a dirty dive bar. But those are the types that would have the permits
     
  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,169
    Likes Received:
    48,341
    Leaving aside for a moment whether this law is a good idea or not. Shouldn't the bar owner be able to outlaw guns on his private property?

    I mean if they can kick out people for not wearing a shirt or shoes why then can't they tell people guns aren't allowed?
     
  14. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,757
    yes, but that is not the issue. any pp can stop guns legally
     
  15. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    The guns are concealed. Invisible to anyone, bar owner included.
     
  16. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,757
    designated driver is the only reason I can think of. other reason also i guess but it seems like it would be a small population of people.
     
  17. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    14,137
    Likes Received:
    1,882
    I think it is great idea! :D The more gun nuts get into gun fights, the better, lol.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,357
    Likes Received:
    39,909
    OMG, that is a horrible idea.

    DD
     
  19. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    The bill targets bars and restaurants. I often will go to a restaurant and sit in the bar while waiting for a table and have an appetizer and may or may not have an alcoholic drink.
     
  20. leroy

    leroy Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2002
    Messages:
    27,385
    Likes Received:
    11,267
    Well, I was thinking recently about taking a trip to Arizona. Thought there would be some cool places to go.

    Not so much any more.
     

Share This Page