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Is Duncan the most undisputed G.O.A.T at his position?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007.

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  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Besides MJ at the 2 (Kobe, Lebron, and Wade still might have something to say about it before it's all said and done), is there a more undisputed "best player ever at the (name a position)" than TD?

    The other guys like Malone and Barkley are no chopped liver, but at the end of the day they couldn't win the big win. Duncan is a great individual player AND a repeat champion. I don't think it's even arguable that TD is a better 4 than Malone and Barkley and just about everyone else. You would be hard-pressed to argue otherwise, at least with a straight face.

    KG? The Mailman? Sir Charles? None of them ever won it all, but the latter two came close.

    Duncan? He has 4 championship rings (yes, I am counting this year's already) AND counting. Manu and Parker are just entering their prime years, while Duncan still has at least a couple of more dominant years in him, and he's likely to be healthy and in shape for at least the playoffs because Pops knows how to pace him during the regular season. I am going to go out on a limb and say that Duncan will have at least one more ring after this one for a total of five, which is the elitist of elite clubs.
     
    #1 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    if you consider him a PF then yes, easy.
     
    #2 SamFisher, Jun 10, 2007
  3. dntrwl

    dntrwl Member

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    He should win more, cause he treats the game like business and he sure as hell is doing his job. He's not fun to watch, and doesn't look like he has much fun most the time either, but at least he'll be in NBA Records. Though I'd like to think players that actually entertain will be remembered more than a snoozefest.
     
    #3 dntrwl, Jun 10, 2007
  4. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    I knew this was going to be brought up, so to be consistent the criteria has to be the position played, not style or what we fans deem is 'appropriate'.

    For instance: Amare is a center, even though he really is a 4.
     
    #4 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
  5. BigM

    BigM Member

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    other than jordan, then yes.

    jordan is significantly better than whoever you say #2 is, oscar robertson, jerry west?

    there is virtually no separation between the top 4 centers, 5 if you include russell.

    larry bird and dr.j run fairly close to each other.

    magic is the undisputed greatest pg of all time so put him up there.

    i think if you put barkley's suns or malone's jazz in this watered-down era they'd have a couple rings for themselves, but as is, you can't argue 4 rings against 0.

    championships aside i think duncan's also just a better player than either of them, though it's very very close.
     
    #5 BigM, Jun 10, 2007
  6. blathersby

    blathersby Member

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    Championship rings do not a good player make. I don't disagree; Duncan is the greatest PF of all time, but rings don't make or break it for me with how good a player is. For example, Lew Alcindor (overrated) had tons of rings but was also surrounded by a STELLAR cast his whole career. And Robert Horry has tons of rings, but I don't think anyone will argue greatest ANYTHING of all time for him.
     
    #6 blathersby, Jun 10, 2007
  7. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Even including Jordan, I think there is more 'separation' between Duncan and others at his position than there is between Jordan and everyone else who's played the 2.

    Big O is considered a PG. West, Kobe, Drexler, Pistol Pete, Ice Man and others I think are 'closer' to Jordan than any of the PFs are to Duncan. I don't think the 'gap' is quite as big at the 2...

    The 5 is probably the most crowded.

    He would be my pick too but there are a few other players that are at least 'in the argument'. I don't think he's the 'undisputed' greatest ever at the 1. Magic playing on the Lakers, I think, had a lot to do with that perception as well.

    I don't know. I think these Spurs are pretty damn good. I can't help but at least respect them because they remind me SO MUCH of those Rockets championship teams. The 'storyline' is very similar: a disrespected champion that never gets its due, playing "boring" style of basketball, a ratings killer. Both teams with legendary big men in the middle, and a bunch of players that exemplify team defense and the "heart of a champion".
     
    #7 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  8. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Besides MJ at SG, you are probably right but it doesn't mean anything. All it proves is there aren't as many top level all-time great PFs as there are at the other positions.
     
    #8 A_3PO, Jun 10, 2007
  9. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    I think the last time we've seen anyone at the PF position this polished on both ends of the floor is maybe McHale? Duncan literally does everything on the floor at a very ridiculous level and that's where the line is drawn because Barkley and Malone weren't intimidating at all on the defensive end. Duncan...as much as he masks as a PF when he is really a C...he does it all.
     
    #9 steddinotayto, Jun 10, 2007
  10. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    As long as Kevin McHale is remembered, he won't be undisputed. I don't think any position has an undisputed best ever other than possibly MJ and the SG position.

    Karl Malone and Kevin McHale are on the same level as Duncan regardless of the rings won. I mean geez, Robert Horry is going for his 7th one, I think.

    If I were to choose teams and needed a PF, I know I'd have a tough time picking among Malone, McHale, and Duncan, so I can't say it's undisputed.
     
    #10 Dr of Dunk, Jun 10, 2007
  11. BigM

    BigM Member

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    oh the spurs are excellent. i'm just jaded looking at their shabby finals competition. starting with the knicks in 99, the nets in 03, then this joke of a team in cleveland, it's just not awe-inspiring. but you play what you're given and they've done what it takes were others have failed.
     
    #11 BigM, Jun 10, 2007
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Duncan is a better all-around player than any of those guys you just mentioned. I think all those guys were great, but I would EASILY pick Duncan over McHale if I was building a team around one guy. As for Barkley and Malone, Duncan is a flat out better defensive player than those guys were, especially Sir Charles. I think Malone was too dependent on Stockton for his offense and Barkley was more creative/skilled than Malone, but not nearly as dedicated to the game.

    Duncan is like the best of all those guys put together: offense, defense, work ethic, winner.
     
    #12 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2007
  13. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    The 'journey' isn't nearly as compelling, no argument there.
     
    #13 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
  14. LCII

    LCII Member

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    Heres my GOAT list by position:

    PG:
    SG: Jordan
    SF:
    PF: Duncan
    C:
     
    #14 LCII, Jun 10, 2007
  15. hooi

    hooi Member

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    You forgot the Spurs beat the Championship Pistons to take the crown back from them. That was a legendary battle between two really good teams.
     
    #15 hooi, Jun 10, 2007
  16. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    Hakeem was a better center AND a better power forward than Duncan...
     
    #16 A-Train, Jun 10, 2007
  17. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Yeah, same here. I would put Magic on that list as well, but the fact that every single person who ever watched Oscar Robertson play swears that Magic had nothing on him gives me pause. Even though I didn't watch the guy play, it's sort of like the whole Wilt Chamberlain thing: you just can't look past those incredible numbers.
     
    #17 tigermission1, Jun 10, 2007
  18. rodrick_98

    rodrick_98 Member

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    PG: Magic
    SF: Bird
     
    #18 rodrick_98, Jun 10, 2007
  19. BigM

    BigM Member

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    that's why i didn't mention them. my point was that 3 of their 4 rings had pretty uninteresting results.
     
    #19 BigM, Jun 10, 2007
  20. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    I thought that he had always been a Power Forward! also
    What about all the great Celtic Power Forwards, headed by Bill Russell ?
     
    #20 Yetti, Jun 10, 2007
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