I'm curious to know what everyone thinks of the situation regarding David Carr. The organization is evidently infatuated with the guy... but I'm not so convinced. I have the sneaking suspicion that if he were taken in a year with truly great prospects... he'd be pushing the mid-20's... or maybe even the high 2nd round. If this were 1999... or 1998... I just couldn't imagine him being mentioned along with Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf... or Couch, McNabb, McNown, Culpepper... etc. Fresno St. was televised quite a bit this year... and since they were often the late game... we all got exposed to the guy enough to make a fair judgement. His arm is good, not great. He does have excellent judgement, but he's not very mobile. The quality of competition he played was... mediocre. The only true quality win he had was against Colorado... which got burned in the secondary all year long. It's no coincidence that Colorado's biggest win came against a Nebraska team that couldn't pass. Remember when Texas finally opened it up? They almost came back and won. And you know what else scares me? How much the Texans are talking up his maturity as a "family man." I'm sometimes wary when one of my favorite teams drafts a guy of *bad character*... but from average to great... I could care less, usually (at least in terms of drafting). Yes, it's good that he's married and takes care of his kid. But one might also say that having a child so young before you're even out of school reflects poor judgement. I know the Texans want someone they can "sell..." but I don't want them to settle for someone just for that reason.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/seniorbowl/carr.html <pre>Height - 6'3" (measured 6'3 1/8" on 1/21/02) Weight - 225 lbs. (weighed 229 lbs. on 1/21/02) Speed - Runs 4.7 in 40-yard dash. Excellent speed for a QB. Intelligence - Very good football intelligence. Understands the game. Toughness - Physical, tough kid. Shows no fear. Strength/Flex - Benches 390 pounds, power cleans 300 and squats 500. Durability - Didn't miss any time. He'll play through pain. Character - Solid. Married with a child. He's a leader. Production - Outstanding production. He was very consistent during the season and this week. He didn't have a down game.</pre>
Haven, Reports from Senior Bowl week (esp. Mel Kiper) have almost all talked about how Carr has tremendous arm strength and accuracy, and adequate mobility. I'm not going to say that he's the same type of quarterback as Culpepper, but the reasons Culpepper slipped in that draft is the reason some teams might pass on Carr if a McNown or Leaf type QB was available. Teams let Culpepper slip, imho, because they didn't have the footage of him consistently playing top notch teams. He came from a small program. Though Fresno St. isn't as small as Central Florida, it's still a relatively small school. The best teams they played all year were Colorado, Wisconsin, and Michigan St. BTW, passing for 500 yards in a bowl game is remarkable. He didn't get to be in the national title picture, like Manning or McNown. He didn't get to be in a New Year's Bowl like Couch. He didn't win the Pac 10 with his team. Why? He came from a smaller school, and realistically they couldn't accomplish any of those goals. I'm glad the Texans are looking past the small school stigma and taking who they feel is the best available. I wasn't so sure that Carr was the top quarterback available after Harrington's Fiesta Bowl performance. However, I trust the Texans and their scouts, and virtually everyone who's watched Carr this week has been extremely impressed with his arm and his accuracy. Look at the top quarterbacks in the NFL... Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Rich Gannon, Daunte Culpepper, etc. These guys all came from smaller schools, but were generally overlooked cause they didn't have the big time attraction in college due to their respective teams.
You've seen him play, I'm sure. His arm strength is good... but tremendous? Watch, say, Chris Simms or Eli Manning throw a ball 20 yards across the middle. Then watch David Carr do the same. Not nearly the same amount of "zip." What small school stigma? Culpepper, McNair, Dilfer, etc didn't seem to have much of a problem getting drafted in a high position. NFL combines are built for such players.
Yea, the hype for Carr reminds me of the hype for another Fresno State QB when he came out...Trent Dilfer. Okay, Dilfer has proven to be a winner with that insane record he has, but does anyone really believed that he would have turned out the way he did if you went back and read all of the scouting reports on him when he was coming out of college? I would take Joey Harrington before I would take Carr.
Kiper has some article on ESPN Insider comparing him to Troy Aikman, I think, but I dont know...I dont have that subscription. Anyway, he sounds very good to me...as good as some of the other top QB picks in recent years (Couch, Culpepper, McNabb, Manning, etc). I know the jury is still out on some of those, but others, McNabb and Manning, to be specific, are worthy QB's, as I think Carr is.
Couch put up freak-like #'s at Kentucky and resurrected a horrible program. Culpepper was an athletic freak on the level of Jevon Kearse. McNabb single-handedly made Syracuse the best team in a major conference, despite miami and vtech both having better teams, overall. Peyton Manning had the best college career, perhaps, ever for QB's... even if his reputation was marred by never beating Florida. Carr did none of this. Hell, his team lost to some mediocre teams.
I'm not saying David Carr is the best arm in the country, but it's pretty damn good. BTW, the tremendous came straight from the mouth of Mel Kiper, not myself. Culpepper went about 12th in a draft rich with quarterbacks, which is around the range some analysts would forecast Carr in if the draft had about 6-7 stud quarterbacks like the one in 1998. However, guys from bigger schools such as Tim Couch, Cade McNown, etc. were chosen ahead of him even though they didn't deserve to be.
I know little to nothing about that drivel Seriously though, skillwise, he seems thus far to be as good. Name me a quarterback who didn't have some question marks?
what?!?! haven, wadr, you're reaching here, my man; that, or you didn't take the time to do your david carr homework. carr put up comparable numbers to couch's final year at kentucky while playing in an infinitely more conservative offense. fresno state (not exactly a national power) won 11 games this year and knocked off three top 25 teams during a three week span -- all on the road (they also beat bowl-bound CSU). he led the nation in yardage (with 4,300 -- about 330 a game) and TD's (42), and only threw 7 INT in nearly 500 attempts. in fact, in two years as a starter, carr threw 65 TD's and only 18 INT, a remarkable ratio. this guy has put up numbers comparable to any QB that's been drafted high in the last ten years. here are carr's numbers in his three losses this year: 30/49, 345, 3/1 28/46, 400, 4/1 35/56, 531, 4/2 his team may have lost to some mediocre opponents, but it certainly wasn't because of anything he did. and let's be realistic about it: he may not have squared off against powerhouses each week, but it's not like he had the wac version of the hurricanes around him either. couch put up impressive numbers, but kentucky never went to a bowl, or won 11 games with him at qb. do you think fsu does either without him? you want to talk about resurrecting a program -- how often was fresno state appearing on the cover of SI? whether he's the right pick or not is certainly debateable, but there's little debate about his worthiness. he's been very, very productive.
Ric: Couch played in the SEC. Carr did not. Carr also had a better rushing threat. Hell, even Dilfer had to play against better teams than Carr, as the Mountain West was not yet in existence at the tim. I tend to think that if you put Carr in the SEC, then he's good, not great. I'm sorry, imo, you need obscene video-game stats or super-freak athleticism with a football to merit a top 5 pick from a small school. Carr has neither of these. I'm not disputing the fact that he's a talented, productive player. I just think that if you're going to take a playerin the top 5 or so, there should be no doubts. I have some doubts about Carr. This is not to say he *won't* be a franchise QB... but rather than I don't like his credentials compared to some other projected franchise QBs... some of whom did not work out themselves. If the Texans draft him, I certainly hope I am wrong.
How does Carr's arm strength compare to Joe Montana's?! Isn't this arm-strength detail kind of over-rated? Give me a quarterback with an adequate arm and great decision-making and I'll race you to the Super Bowl.
ok. So everyone except me , bgm and haven are on the David Carr bandwagon. And why is this? Because McNair and Casserly like him? Because Mcnair and Casserly WANT to draft a QB and want to make a big splash? I don't care if Carr played for Central Dakota Tech. He's got a decent arm, but Manning, Simms, Palmer, Leftwich will all be better pros. And so will Harrington. Alot of you are getting on the Carr bandwagon because that is who the Texans will draft. Why does Houston like Carr? Because he is perceived to be the best qb available. Wrong. Joey Harrington is. McKinnie, Peppers and Henderson are all better prospects and may be more dominant players. Heck, Jammer, Williams, Edwards, and Mike Williams mayh be better pros. From what we have seen, what makes Carr the #1 pick? The undisputed franchise player? That is what a #1 pick should be.
Heck, the Ravens won last year with a QB they cut, so maybe the qb position is overrated. But, the Texans, with the #1 pick, should pick the best player available. They certainly would know better than I, but I have a feeling that Carr isn't the best player available at #1.
There are many factors that contribute to the quality of a QB. Arms strength is one among many. This does not mean it should be ignored. When you take a #1 pick, you want that player to be the pinacle of what that position can be. I do not believe David Carr is such a player. Maybe I underrated him earlier. Maybe he's a top 10 or 15. But is he really the best player in the nation? I can't for a moment believe that. I'm not sure if he was the best QB or not.. but there's no chance he's the best pro-prospect. Not after having seen him play... and remembering watching other great college QB's play. Especially not after watching Bryant McKinnie utterly dominate all year. Bryant McKinnie is the best college tackle since Orlando Pace, imo. I can't describe how dominant he is in person. At the BC-Miami game, our pass rushers didn't *get close* to Dorsey. And we were 2nd in the Big East in sacks. We could get a little pressure in on the other side... but McKinnie was awe inspiring. Should have won the Heisman, imo. Nebraska? Vtech? Washington. No challenge for McKinnie. How would David Carr have fared against that blackshirt defense? I'd really hate to see the Texans pass up on a once-every-5-years tackle for a QB that... well.. looks very good, but not quite magnificent
this sounds simplistic, but it really comes down to this for me: the texans have spent more time preparing for this draft pick than any team in the history of the NFL....they've had scouts working on this thing for years now. i'll defer to their judgment. if they say carr is the man (or at least worth the gamble), then pick carr. if they're wrong on carr, they'll have ample opportunity to find a replacement for him as they'll likely be picking toward the top of the draft for a few years.
that's saying something considering none of them are even better college QB's. nope, carr is widely regarded as the best senior QB available. harrington made up some ground with his performance against colorado, but... well, carr beat up on colorado, too. wadr, this notion that you (or anyone) can accurately project how a player will play on the next level is silly. i mean, 230 players will be drafted this year; it's possible 229 of them will be better than carr, but i don't think any of us can say that definitively in january. there is no sure thing at the top of this draft, none. mckinnie, et al, have as many questions as carr. if one's available, but one isn't.
Honestly gr8-1, after reading the report I posted up above, I'm kind of lessening my Anti-Carr stance. The dude sounds like a pretty nice physical specimen...but I still would prefer the Texans trade the pick because I think a franchise QB could be found in say the 2nd or 3rd round just as easily as in the 1st, since a good portion of 1st round QB picks turn into busts. I still wouldn't be upset if Carr were selected though...like I would have been say a week ago...
