First let me say that I know the mets have a better offense so I won't look at any stat that is dependent on actually having guys on base. Let's see how the 2 compare: They have pretty much the same OPS. Berkman is at 1.027 and Beltran is at 1.022 so they are almost the same offensively (in hitting output). What matters then is the OPS distribution. Beltran has a higher SLG% but Berkman has a higher .OBP/.AVG. These 2 advantages balance each other out almost perfectly (The Similar OPSs). So while Berkman has more hits, Beltran compensates via extra base hits. At the end of the day we are left with singles v. doubles. Frequency v Power. On a given hit, Beltran will move potential runners further with a double than berkman will with a single. Also consider singles don’t always score the guy from 2nd while doubles will most certainly score him and sometimes score the guy from 1st. With a good pitcher on the mound, the likelyhood that a series of batters will knock off hits is low so it would seem that Beltran would be the better player since he is more likely to turn a single into a run than Berkman. But then when a poor pitcher is on the mound, is it better to have the guy that will just get on base and give a shot to the guys behind him? If you are choosing between a guy that is more valuable v. good pitching than a guy who is more valuable v. bad pitching, is there even a debate? Also worth noting are the 12 more SB Beltran has which don't factor into OPS but still garner bases. I love Fat Elvis but somewhat objective statistics suggests that Beltran is having a marginally better year than Berkman.
Beltran is having a marginally better year for a better team... that is pretty important. But, I still think Lance would have the same type of year playing in that lineup in NY, whereas I don't think Beltran would produce as much if he were in Berkman's place in Houston (without the protection of Delgado and Wright). The fact that Lance is doing this as the only dangerous batter in his lineup is pretty impressive... it doesn't mean he's having a better year, but its pretty damn tough to do what he's doing. Also, as career numbers show, Lance is one of the most consistent/productive batters in the game... without fail. Beltran makes up for his streaky bat somewhat with CF defense, and SB's... but if we're just talking about hitting, Lance has nothing to be ashamed of.
Matter? We're talking on an Internet BBS, for God's sake! None of this "matters"! It's just fun to talk about.
IMAGINE if we HAD 3. BERKMAN 4. BELTRAN in the 3-4 spot for the next 10yrs IF BELTRAN WOULD HAVE SIGNED!!
Why the hell do Beltran threads still consistently come up? BELTRAN HIMSELF CHOSE NOT TO COME HERE!!!!!!
It's just having a little fun with stats. They are both in the MVP race (Lance too a degree) so it might be relevant in that regard but I think it's mostly fun to analyze what appears to be a "tie".
i gotta give it to berkman. he's have a field day in the mets lineup but beltran is the man....i love him
Carlos is in the middle of Jose Reyes, David Wright and Carlos Delgado. Who is Berkman's protection? The difference in the year.
Beltran has slightly better stats right now, but I expect Berkman to have better stats at end of season.
Keep in mind that on the exact same base hit, Beltran easily has the capability to make it to second, while Berkman would need quite a bit more time. I think what you're identifying is actually not a difference in their ability to make contact and put it into hard-to-reach places, but rather the difference in their speed. Grady Sizemore has a ton of doubles and triples, and that's mostly due to his foot speed, more than just his hitting prowess.
But what difference does that make? Berkman might have more doubles if he was faster but he isn't. If we are to look at who is having the better year, the only thing that matters is what those hits have translated into. From the perspective of total bases, beltran v. berkman becomes, power v. frequency
This thread is ghey... I can't believe we're comparing these two as Berkman is better...It's just the Astros suck right now...
Well, you assert that "Beltran will move potential runners further with a double than Berkman will with a single" which would be untrue if the double/single distinction is only a footspeed issue. Your statement of being frequency vs. power is not quite accurate if they are equally skilled at hitting the ball hard to different parts of the field, just that Beltran is able to stretch his singles into doubles easier. As it turns out Berkman has 110 RBIs and Beltran has 108, pretty much equal, so Beltran's "extra power moving people along" idea, I believe, is not correct.
Very few hits over the course of a season that are singles for one player are doubles for another. There are certainly some - but for the most part, a single is a single. Doubles can more often be turned into triples with speed, and it often helps in scoring once you're running the bases, but over the course of the season, any given speedy player probably has no more than 3 or 4 doubles that would be singles for other players.
