I was watching some show on ESPN last nite,+ it was about Albert Belle. They touched on his Hall of Fame possibilities,+ the basic conclusion was that his notoriety would work against it. IMO,he's a HOFer. With the exception of possibly Barry Bonds,he was the best offensive player of the 90's. What's everyone elses opinion?
To get into the HOF you need to either have a long productive career with great numbers or have spectacular numbers if your career is cut short (e.g. Sandy Koufax). I don't see Belle even coming close to getting in.
I disagree with the assertion that Belle was second only to Bonds among offensiver players in the 90's...I'd argue Bagwell has had a better stretch in the 90's...Griffey in the 90's was amazing...
I agree with Max, maybe it`s my homerism but Bagwell was awesome in the 90`s. I think Belle would have had a shot at the HOF if he had hadnt had so many run ins with reporters and fans. I personally did not like his attitude when he played and I think that accompanied with his wacky exit from the game will be his downfall.
Bagwell was indeed a better hitter, imo. Better plate discipline. Belle would have made the Hall of Fame if he'd played another 3-4 years. It sucks when someone's "good enough" but doesn't have enough longevity... but I think that's sort of inevitable.
Based on pure triple crown number from the 1990-1999 seasons: AVG is for career Player HR's AVG RBI's Bagwell 263 .303 961 Griffey 382 .296 1091 Belle 351 .295 1099 Gonzales 339 .296 1068 Bonds 363 .292 1076 McGwire 463 .263 1079 F Thomas 301 .319 1040 Sosa 332 .277 928 L Walker 262 .315 851 It really is too close to call. Belle was the leader in RBI's and 4th in HR's. McGwire's numbers would be really scare if he wasn't injured in 1993/1994 so much. He only played 74 games in those two seasons. WOW. He would easily be the biggest slugger of the 90's. He is my pick even with injuries. (stats from mlb.com)
wink3cat5: Using average and RBI doesn't really tell much about a player, since RBI are largely a function of who you happen to be hitting behind. If you hit in front of low power/high OBP guys, it'll be higher than if you hit behind high power guys, or simply guys who who don't do either. Average doesn't take into account plate discipline, which is extremely important. In '98, for example, McGwire didn't have as good of average as Sosa. But that's deceptive, since he got on base much more. Sosa didn't walk nearly enough. And a walk is almost as good as single. Less chance of driving in a run, but they do wear down pitchers nicely.
I am just providing numbers. They just show consistency and production. Take them for what they are. By picking big Mac I am not saying he is better. He was the best Home Run hitter of the 90's though. Overall I would probably take Frank Thomas, Bagwell, or Larry Walker to be the foundation of an offense.
Belle reminds me a lot of Dick Allen. They were both outstanding power hitters. They were both very surly to the media and to people in general. They both (more than likely) will not make it into the Hall of Fame.
But by picking them as the #'s you give, you imply that they're meaningful. And while a terrible hitter isn't going to rack up huge RBI #s, it's not a good tool to determine who's better among hitters of even remotely the same caliber. Neither is batting average. Homeruns are useful, since they're nice in providing "sure-fire" runs. Stats that really tell you about a hitter include OBP, Slugging % (or the combined OPS), runs created, or VORP (value above replacement player).
Here's how Belle's stats compare to some HOF Outfielders G H HR RBI AVG K Puckett 1783 2304 207 1085 318 E Slaughter 2380 2383 169 1304 300 R Kiner 1472 1451 369 1015 279 D Snider 2143 2116 407 1333 295 A Belle 1539 1726 295 1239 295 IMO,I really don't see how Belle's numbers don't deseve serious consideration. Here's another related question: If Puckett had'nt played for a World Series winner,is he a HOFer?
Puckett did more than just play for a World Series team, he won Game 6 in the 1991 World Series. Where did you get Belle's HR #'s from? I show him at 351 for the 1990's and 381 for his career. Did you put the AVG twice?
Dirt: But you're comparing him to marginal HoFers. Some players of that caliber get in, most don't. You can also find many guys of Belle's quality who are not in the HoF.
