i'm sure the us wouldnt be there if iraq was the world's leading exporter of oranges and bananas the us is there for a few reasons....to further establish its dominance in the region in close coordination with israel and to control even more access to oil, while establishing a puppet regime in iraq and gaining more military bases in the middle east to support illegitimate rulers and violently opposing countries it doesnt agree with
According to Hayes it's because we love spreading democracy - and anything adverse to that opinion is "self serving". We need to rely on Hayes' "realistic assessments" of these situations to understand why Bush is doing the right thing - if you disagree you've been "glynched" by the liberal media. And for goodness' sake - don't expect Hayes to hold himself to his own standards - that's not hypocrisy, it's neocon ideology. You could substitute any blinded neocon for Hayes - I'm just picking on him thanks to his amusing posts in the glynch "blocking" thread.
Hope you don't mind me interrupting your love in . Not sure what the bruhaha is about - more money is going to security so stuff stops blowing up. How is that undemocratic, lol - or even bad? I'm pretty sure the everyday Iraqi would rather money went to security now, rather than to 'think tank' building. Oh yeah, and rhad - its disappointing that you're mischaracterizing my positions. But the last resort of desperate men I guess...
lol. Likewise. Hey Hayes: I'm not trying to piss you off - in all honesty it's refreshing to have someone to have polite debate with. Even though we really don't agree on much. I like to see the other side - keeps me "grounded". Oh and it's not mischaracterizing anyway.
there is no future in supporting a politically bankrupt regime and their policies....the iraq war has been a failure...no way around that
I don't think it's a zero-sum game. If you're serious about fostering democracy in the Middle East, if you make it the focus of your Presidency, you do both. Instead, we are robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I agree. However, if nobody was at home griping about the cost of the intervention in Iraq then this wouldn't be a problem. That its not a zero sum game - you need security and democratic institutions - just shows what hooey this thread is.
Hayes, you need to realize US foreign policy cannot succeed on pure moralistic and humanitarian principles just as communism cannot prevail without being an coercive egalitarian doctrine. It's the friggin' human nature.
Can you hear it coming? EMPIRE! Can you hear it calling? Funny...I heard an interview with this guy(Geoff Tate) on Dallas radio today. He doesn't do politics so keep him out of this thread.
But I thought Bush was a leader with a clear focus and an understanding of his historic place in a triumphant march of Democracy... I thought he was a man who trusted his gut to do what's right and could care less about what others thought. Heck, even with the griping, he's gotten every dollar for Iraq that he's asked for. Sorry, this argument doesn't hold water. No link to Al-Q, no WMD's, and now a weakening, half-hearted attempt at seeding Democracy that is destined to fail. Around the time of the invasion, I posted a question asking what number of American lives would have to be reached before even the most ardent supporter would say "enough." Now, sadly, one has to posit a similar question: "How much incompetence can you tolerate and still support this war?"
I must've blacked out for a few months. Where did I say US foreign policy was purely moralistic? I gotta stop doing that. Feel free to search the many many many US foreign policy and/or Iraq threads in which I have posted many many many times, and try and find ONE SINGLE quote from me saying what you claim I do above. Sigh. From 'weaking' on is just empty rhetoric. An understanding that this endeavor won't succeed without stability is not a step away from supporting or prioritizing democracy. It is a necessary precondition. Not sure what your point is - I don't think we should ignore the security issue or how it interrelates with the potential successful democratic transition.