[Iraq] Even Bush freaking disapproves

Batman Jones · Jan 16, 2007

This is too freaking awesome. Lonely yet, basso? Jorge? giddy? At least you have each other.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/01/16/bush-if-i-had-to-take-a_n_38817.html

Bush: If I Had To Take An Opinion Poll On Iraq I'd Say "No, I Don't Approve Of What's Taking Place"...

PBS**|**Posted January 16, 2007 05:24 PM

Excerpted From President Bush's Interview With PBS's Jim Lehrer:

MR. LEHRER: Mr. President, do you have a feeling of personal failure about Iraq right now?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I'm frustrated at times about Iraq because I understand the consequences of failure. I want the Iraqis to succeed for our own sake. This is a war; part of a broader war, and that if we fail in Iraq, there is a better likelihood that the enemy comes and hurts us here. And so, I am frustrated with the progress. If you were to take it and put me in an opinion poll and said do I approve of Iraq, I'd be one of those that said, no, I don't approve of what's taking place in Iraq.

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Jorge, do you still stand by your support of Bush now that he's decided to embolden terrorists?

Deckard · Jan 16, 2007

He truly lives in Bizarro World, doesn't he.

D&D. Cold as Ice.

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

Hi I'm Batman Jones and I'm an attention w****. I constantly bash T_J, texx, giddy, and basso yet fail to realize I'm just as much of a blowhard who can't stand opinions differing from my own as I claim they are.

Batman Jones · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

Hi I'm Batman Jones and I'm an attention w****. I constantly bash T_J, texx, giddy, and basso yet fail to realize I'm just as much of a blowhard who can't stand opinions differing from my own as I claim they are.
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your mean

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

Batman Jones said:

your mean
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eye yam note.

(I realize you misspelled yours on purpose).

vlaurelio · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

Hi I'm Batman Jones and I'm an attention w****. I constantly bash T_J, texx, giddy, and basso yet fail to realize I'm just as much of a blowhard who can't stand opinions differing from my own as I claim they are.
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difference is one is correct while the other is wrong

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

vlaurelio said:

difference is one is correct while the other is wrong
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Oh I forgot that it's possible for one person to be right about every single issue. My bad.

vlaurelio · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

Oh I forgot that it's possible for one person to be right about every single issue. My bad.
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aren't we talking about iraq?

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

vlaurelio said:

aren't we talking about iraq?
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I was talking about his manner of posting overall but I can see how you would think otherwise.

vlaurelio · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

I was talking about his manner of posting overall but I can see how you would think otherwise.
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so you're just trying to derail this thread

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

vlaurelio said:

so you're just trying to derail this thread
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What was the purpose of this thread in the first place? Gloating? I find it hard to believe that this thread was designed to foster an agreement between both sides of the issue so forgive me for not taking it seriously.

pgabriel · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

What was the purpose of this thread in the first place? Gloating? I find it hard to believe that this thread was designed to foster an agreement between both sides of the issue so forgive me for not taking it seriously.
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yet you don't have a problem when tj does it? why, oh because you usually agree with tj.

I guess you don't have a problem with tj's recent thread title that I guess was supposed to spark intelligent dialogue.

pgabriel · Jan 16, 2007

the funny thing is you accuse batman of being an attention w****, but I guess tj's thread title wasn't attention whoring.

halfbreed · Jan 16, 2007

pgabriel said:

the funny thing is you accuse batman of being an attention w****, but I guess tj's thread title wasn't attention whoring.
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It certainly was. I've given up on that one. I've honestly tried before.

pgabriel · Jan 16, 2007

halfbreed said:

It certainly was. I've given up on that one. I've honestly tried before.
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okay, I didn't know you had a problem with tj's also. I take back my criticism.

giddyup · Jan 16, 2007

Did Bush say he also wouldn't vote for himself again?

Who doesn't want things to go better... no matter how great or how bad they are going?

"I don't approve of what's taking place in Iraq..." Big news. Make it better.

basso · Jan 16, 2007

positing that mistakes were made in iRaq is not the same as saying the war was a mistake. get the **** over yourself.

mc mark · Jan 16, 2007

basso said:

positing that mistakes were made in iRaq is not the same as saying the war was a mistake. get the **** over yourself.
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such language from a lunatic fringe war supporter.

tisk tisk

vlaurelio · Jan 16, 2007

basso said:

positing that mistakes were made in iRaq is not the same as saying the war was a mistake. get the **** over yourself.
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I don't approve of what's taking place in Iraq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mistakes were made in Iraq

I don't approve of what's taking place in Iraq << the war was a mistake

rimrocker · Jan 17, 2007

By the way, here's the full passage... from http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/white_house/jan-june07/bush_01-16.html

I'm frustrated at times about Iraq because I understand the consequences of failure. I want the Iraqis to succeed for our own sake. This is a war; part of a broader war, and that if we fail in Iraq, there is a better likelihood that the enemy comes and hurts us here. And so, I am frustrated with the progress. If you were to take it and put me in an opinion poll and said do I approve of Iraq, I'd be one of those that said, no, I don't approve of what's taking place in Iraq. On the other hand, I do believe we can succeed. Look, I had a choice to make, Jim, and that is - one - do what we're doing. And one could define that maybe a slow failure. Secondly, withdraw out of Baghdad and hope for the best. I would think that would be expedited failure. And thirdly is to help this Iraqi government with additional forces - help them do what they need to do, which is to provide security in Baghdad.

I chose the latter because I think it's going to more likely be successful. Failure - and this is what is hard, I think, for the American people to understand and one of the reasons why I appreciate talking to you is that people have got to understand that if we fail in Iraq, it is likely there will be safe haven from which people will be able to launch attacks from America. It is likely there would be enormous clashes between radical Shia and radical Sunnis. It is likely that moderate governments could be toppled, in which case, people could get a hold of oil resources. You mix all that with an Iran with a nuclear weapon and we're looking at a generation of Americans threatened. And so therefore, we've got to get it - we've got to succeed. And that is why I put out the plan I put, because I think it's one that has got a better chance of any one I've seen around here that will succeed.
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Other quotes from the same interview...

Well, actually - I will sound defensive - but some of my decisions actually have worked, like getting rid of Saddam Hussein and helping the Iraqi government form a unity government that is based on a novel constitution for the Middle East. As a matter of fact, in 2005, I thought - I mean, in 2006, I thought I'd be in a position to remove troops from Iraq, in other words, hand over more of the authorities to the Iraqis so they could take the fight, and then this sectarian violence that you described broke out. And the question is, do we try to stop it? Do we help the Iraqis stop it? And a year ago, I felt pretty good about the situation; I felt like we were achieving our objective, which is a country that can govern, sustain, and defend itself. No question, 2006 was a lousy year for Iraq. And so the question I'm now faced with is do I react to that or do we just begin to leave, which is - some people - decent people on Capitol Hill think we ought to do. I made the decision, let's succeed; let's work for success not work for failure.

MR. LEHRER: I guess the real question that remains on top of all of this, how was this allowed to happen that there was a bad 2006? I mean, that's 365 days; it was reported on a daily basis. People kept talking about it. There were all kinds of comments about it. So how did this happen, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, first of all, let's start with the Samarra bombing. And there was actually a fair amount of constraint by the Shias after the Samarra bombing, which took place I think in February or March last year. And the sectarian violence really didn't start spiraling out of control until the summer. Part of the failure for our reaction was ourselves. I mean, we should have found troops and moved them. But part of it was that the Iraqis didn't move troops. And I take responsibility for us not moving our own troops into Baghdad -

MR. LEHRER: Why didn't we move the troops, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, because I think the commanders there felt like it was important to make sure the Iraqis did first, or that the Iraqis made a focused, concerted effort. And they just didn't. There were supposedly six brigades committed and they sent two. And what's going to change this time is that they've now - we will watch them move brigades in that Baghdad - brigades that they promised they would. But we want the Iraqis in the lead in this fight. This is their government; this is their country. They were elected by 12 million people. And the American role is to help them. And help them this time means embedding with them, which we have done before, continuing to train an Iraqi force, expand the Iraqi force, help them get better equipment - but also in this case, serve side by side with the Iraqi forces as they secure these neighborhoods in Baghdad.
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Just to remind everyone...

Absolutely, we're winning. Al Qaeda is on the run....People now understand the stakes. We're winning, and we will win, unless we leave before the job is done

--W, 10-25-06

MR. LEHRER: Is there a little bit of a broken egg problem here, Mr. President, that there is instability and there is violence in Iraq - sectarian violence, Iraqis killing other Iraqis, and now the United States helped create the broken egg and now says, okay, Iraqis, it's your problem. You put the egg back together, and if you don't do it quickly and you don't do it well, then we'll get the hell out.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, you know, that's an interesting question. I don't quite view it as the broken egg; I view it as the cracked egg --

MR. LEHRER: Cracked egg?

PRESIDENT BUSH: -- that - where we still have a chance to move beyond the broken egg.
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MR. LEHRER: General Casey said yesterday that the commander said that it may be spring or even summer before we have any signs of success from the new program -

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yes.

MR. LEHRER: -- from the new strategy, and even then I can't guarantee you that it's going to work. That's the general; that's the guy who is the commander.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I - look, I mean, I think that's a -

MR. LEHRER: That's -

PRESIDENT BUSH: -- that's a sober assessment. Well, it's a sober assessment. I think he's not going to stand up and make guarantees that may or may not happen, but he is also the general who felt like we needed more troops, and he's also the general that believes this is the best chance of working. I think he's giving a realistic assessment for people.

I also said in my speech you can expect more killing. In other words, it's still going to be a dangerous environment because the enemy is likely to step up attacks to try to discourage the Iraqi government and to discourage the American people.

MR. LEHRER: Well, Mr. President, how can there then be a strategy based on trying to attain success if even more people are going to die - Americans as well as Iraqis?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, the - the purpose of the strategy, Jim, is to settle Baghdad down, is to secure neighborhoods, is to give the Iraqi people a chance to live in peace, which is what they want. And the way to do that is to send troops into neighborhoods to clean the neighborhoods of insurgents and terrorists, and it's to hold the neighborhoods. And the problem in the past, there weren't enough troops to hold the neighborhoods after neighborhoods had been cleared. And then to build is to have a political process behind it that will work.

We think this is the most comprehensive way of succeeding. The question is: is it worth it? And my point to you earlier was - and the point I made to Congress is - is that failure is - shouldn't be an option. As a matter of fact, most people in Washington agree with that. My point then is that if failure is not an option, what is your idea for success? And I've listened to all kinds of ideas on this. One idea was just keep doing what you're doing; another idea was to pull out of Baghdad, make it a slow-withdrawal concept. A lot of people believe - me included - that that would exacerbate the situation. It would make it impossible to succeed in Iraq. And then the final option is secure the capital and at the same time chase al-Qaida into Anbar. And what's different is that there would be more troops this time and better rules of engagement so that the Iraqi troops and our troops, working side by side, will be able to go after the enemy.
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Chase al-Qaida into Anbar? What? earlier in the interview, he says this:

Yeah, well, success, Jim, means a government that is providing security for its people. A success means for the American people to see Iraqi troops chasing down killers with American help initially. A success means a Baghdad that is, you know, relatively calm compared to last year so that people's lives can go forward and a political process can go forward along with it. Success means the government taking steps to share the oil wealth or to deal with a de-Baathification law, to encourage local elections. Success means reconstruction projects that employ Iraqis. Success also means making sure al-Qaida doesn't get a foothold in Iraq, which they're trying to do in Anbar province. So success is measurable; it's definable; and last year was a year in which there was a setback to success.
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Well - listen, I fully understand the president has got to convince the American people it's worth it and that we can succeed, and no doubt - and I've spent a lot of time during my presidency talking to the American people and educating the American people about the stakes and what we're trying to get done.

But my first consideration - and listen, I hope Republicans and Democrats support this, but no question there's a headwind. There's a lot of skepticism in Washington, D.C. There's skepticism about whether or not there's enough troops, whether we should be putting any troops, and there's skepticism whether the Maliki government will make the tough decisions necessary to succeed.

The common ground is - that I'm finding is most people say we can't fail, and no question I'd love to have bipartisan support. I mean, I'd love for Democrats and Republicans to stand behind me in the Rose Garden as I outline the plan, but the primary objective has got to be to succeed in Iraq. And so I'm not surprised that people are saying, okay, you may think this is necessary for success, but we're skeptical. And so we're in a period of - there's some pessimism and some skepticism here in Washington that I'm going to have to continue to work through. And - but ultimately, Jim, what's going to matter is whether or not there is success on the ground.

MR. LEHRER: But when - but when, Mr. President, does the skepticism and the criticism become so heavy and so prevalent that it becomes a factor? In other words, simply put, how in the world does any president of the United States run a war without the support of a majority of the American people and a majority of the Congress of the United States, no matter what the ins and outs are?

PRESIDENT BUSH: No, and no question about that. And that's why I'm having this interview with you. I'm trying to do my very best to explain to people why success is vital. In other words, people have got to understand that if we decide and we grow weary of - and there's a lot of war weariness in this country, and I fully understand that -- and we say, okay, well, let's just leave; we can leave in stages, but let's just leave, or let's just pull back and hope that the Iraqis are able to settle their business, the consequences of that decision will be disastrous for the future of this country. And therefore, we got to keep working on ways to succeed, as far as I'm concerned.

And again I want to repeat this, if you don't mind.

MR. LEHRER: Sure.

PRESIDENT BUSH: The world will see - 20 years from now, it's conceivable the world will see a Middle East that's got Shia - radical Shia and radical Sunnis competing against each other for power, which will cause people to have to choose up sides in the Middle East, supporting ideologies that are the exact opposite of what we believe.

Secondly, it is likely, if that scenario were to develop, that Middle Eastern oil would fall in the hand of radicals, which they could then use to blackmail Western governments.

Thirdly, when you throw a nuclear weapon race in the midst of this, you've got a - you know, a kind of - a chance for radicals to use weapons of mass destruction in a form that would cause huge devastation. In other words, there would be a cauldron of radicalism and extremism that a future generation would have to deal with.

Now is the time to succeed in Iraq. That's why in my State of the Union address, and why in other speeches I have and will spend time talking about the need to defeat this ideology with an ideology that is hopeful - the ideology of hate with an ideology of hope, and that would be democracy.

And so the - Iraq is - Jim, is - must be viewed in a context just larger than that single battlefield. It must be viewed in context of how Iran reacts. It must be viewed in the context of democracies like Lebanon and the Palestinian territories - all being - these young democracies, by the way, being attacked by the same type of extremists that are attacking the democracy in Iraq.
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MR. LEHRER: Let me ask you a bottom-line question, Mr. President. If it is as important as you've just said - and you've said it many times - as all of this is, particularly the struggle in Iraq, if it's that important to all of us and to the future of our country, if not the world, why have you not, as president of the United States, asked more Americans and more American interests to sacrifice something? The people who are now sacrificing are, you know, the volunteer military - the Army and the U.S. Marines and their families. They're the only people who are actually sacrificing anything at this point.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, you know, I think a lot of people are in this fight. I mean, they sacrifice peace of mind when they see the terrible images of violence on TV every night. I mean, we've got a fantastic economy here in the United States, but yet, when you think about the psychology of the country, it is somewhat down because of this war.

Now, here in Washington when I say, "What do you mean by that?," they say, "Well, why don't you raise their taxes; that'll cause there to be a sacrifice." I strongly oppose that. If that's the kind of sacrifice people are talking about, I'm not for it because raising taxes will hurt this growing economy. And one thing we want during this war on terror is for people to feel like their life's moving on, that they're able to make a living and send their kids to college and put more money on the table. And you know, I am interested and open-minded to the suggestion, but this is going to be -

MR. LEHRER: Well -

PRESIDENT BUSH: -- this is like saying why don't you make sacrifices in the Cold War? I mean, Iraq is only a part of a larger ideological struggle. But it's a totally different kind of war, than ones we're used to.

MR. LEHRER: Well, for instance, Mr. President, some people have asked why -- and I would ask you about -- have you considered some kind of national service program, that would be civilian as well as military, that would involve more people in the effort to - not just militarily, but you talk about ideology, all this sort of stuff - in other words, to kind of muster the support of young Americans, and other Americans, in this struggle that you say is so monumental and so important.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, I have considered whether it ought to be compulsory, non-military service, I guess is the best way to put it. I'm not for compulsory military service, by the way. I think the volunteer army is working and we got to keep it strong.

I made the decision early on to set up what's - something called the USA Freedom Corps, which could encourage volunteerism; call people to take time out of their lives to serve our country with compassionate acts. And by the way, volunteerism is high in America.

But no, you know, I thought through compulsory national service and thought that the route that we picked was the best route.

MR. LEHRER: The best route. How would you define, finally, where the best route is going to end? If you - in other words, you have a plan now -

PRESIDENT BUSH: Right.

MR. LEHRER: -- and eventually, the plan is going to have to result in something. You said yourself it's going to have to result in something on the ground.

PRESIDENT BUSH: Right. Right. Right.

MR. LEHRER: What is that result going to be?

PRESIDENT BUSH: A Baghdad which is less violent, neighborhoods that are not being cleansed of sectarian violence, and a government that has got a security force - army and national police force - that is chasing down killers, whether they be Sunni killers or Shia killers. In other words, a country that is beginning to function, first and foremost - a government functioning as - to provide security for people. Most people want to live in peace, and yet, the violence is such that they're not able to do so.

Secondly, I want to see a political process that tends to unify the country as opposed to divide the country. And that would be an oil law; that would be reforming the de-Ba'athification law; that will be local elections. The Iraqi government said they're going to spend $10 billion. We want to see the $10 billion spent equitably. We'd like to see this country continue its small business growth and continue to flourish. We want the country to be territorially intact. We want it to be an ally in this war on terror, not a safe haven for terrorists. And this is doable.

I would like very much at some point in time, of course, to have fewer U.S. troops. But there is no timetable to do this on. All timetables do is embolden the enemy. Look, I want the Iraqi government to work. And it's in our interests that we help it work, it seems like to me, and that's why I made the decision I made.

MR. LEHRER: And you're an optimist - you're optimistic about it all at this point?

PRESIDENT BUSH: I am. No question there's a - look, a year ago if we'd been having this discussion prior to the Samarra bombing, I'd have been - look what happened. And then the enemy responded. And by the way, it was al-Qaida that bombed the Samarra mosque. It was al-Qaida that said, we're losing; democracy is something we can't stand, so let us kill innocent lives and bomb a holy site in order to try to provoke sectarian violence. And they were successful. This guy, Zarqawi, did a good job.

It's important for the American people to understand it is al-Qaida that is doing a lot of these spectacular bombings. Why? Because they want a safe haven. They still have ambitions about hurting America. The very same guys - type of guys that flew those airplanes on September 11th are still the ones that are battling against a young democracy in Iraq. And we've got to defeat them, we got to defeat them there. And what changed in 2005 was this level of - and 2006, was this level of sectarian violence that you have accurately described. And the decision I had to make was, does it make sense to help the Iraqis with additional U.S. forces go in and secure those neighborhoods and not only drive them out, drive the insurgents out, but to have enough troops to hold them, and so that the politics and the reconstruction could go forward. And I spent a lot of time thinking about it, Jim, obviously. You mentioned five weeks. This is what presidents do; they take time, they listen. I listened to a lot of folks, a lot of good, decent folks, and came up with this answer as the best way to succeed. And my only call to Congress is that if you've got a better way to succeed, step up and explain it. I fully understand your skepticism, I say to them, but if you share with me the concern that failure's not an option, then what is - what's your - what's your prescription for success? And I think they owe that explanation to the American people.
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Ugh.

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[Iraq] Even Bush freaking disapproves

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[Iraq] Even Bush freaking disapproves

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