Wow! Could it work? http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/13/international1134EDT0519.DTL Two years of talks between former negotiators produce final peace talks, though it has no formal standing KARIN LAUB, Associated Press Writer Monday, October 13, 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (10-13) 08:34 PDT JERUSALEM (AP) -- Two years of talks between former Israeli and Palestinian negotiators have produced a 50-page peace deal that could be the basis for eventual official negotiations, even though it has no formal standing, participants said Monday. Israeli leaders blasted the agreement as an irresponsible end run around the government, saying the Israeli participants, among them former left-wing Cabinet ministers, centrist generals and legislators allied with Israel's opposition, had no right to make concessions in Israel's name. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has been briefed on the contacts and is aware of the details of the agreement, Palestinian officials said. The Palestinians were represented by Cabinet ministers, legislators and leaders of the ruling Fatah party. As part of the deal, Israel would withdraw from 98 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip, annexing about 20 of 150 Jewish settlements, negotiators said. The Palestinians would be compensated for the missing 2 percent by receiving some land in Israel's Negev Desert, mainly to widen Gaza. Jerusalem would be divided by an international border, with Jewish neighborhoods going to Israel, and Arab neighborhoods becoming part of Palestine. The walled Old City, with its major holy sites, would remain open to both sides. The Palestinians would control the Al Aqsa Mosque compound, Islam's third holiest shrine, while Israel would retain sovereignty over parts of the Western Wall, which runs alongside the mosque compound. Palestinian refugees would be mainly be resettled in Palestine and in third countries, or be offered compensation. The document makes no reference to a blanket "right of return" of Palestinian refugees to homes in what is now Israel, defusing a major sticking point that has derailed negotiations in the past. Meetings began two years ago in Geneva, at the initiative of Yossi Beilin, a former Israeli Cabinet minister and architect of interim peace accords with the Palestinians. Since then, the two sides have met dozens of times, abroad and at home. Over the weekend, in three days of talks in Jordan, the two sides completed a draft agreement that is to be signed next month in Geneva, possibly on Nov. 4, to mark the anniversary of the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin by an Israeli opponent of the peace deals. Negotiators said they hoped world leaders will attend. Several countries, including Egypt, Jordan, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, Britain and Japan, have already shown interest in the effort, said Menachem Klein, an Israeli negotiator and adviser to Israel's delegation to the failed 2000 Camp David peace talks. Beilin and Palestinian Cabinet minister Yasser Abed Rabbo on Monday briefed Osama al-Baz, a top adviser to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, on the draft, Klein said. Once the agreement is signed, copies will be mailed to millions of homes on both sides to try to win support for the deal, Klein said. The past three years of fighting have created a climate of distrust, though support for an eventual peace deal remains high on both sides. Klein, a political scientist and expert on Jerusalem, said the agreement could galvanize public opinion and serve as a base for future negotiations. "We hope ... it will become the term of reference for both unofficial talks and in the near future hopefully for official negotiations," he said. Two dozen people participated from both sides, including former peace negotiators. Members of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's Cabinet harshly criticized the theoretical treaty. "I don't see why three failed Cabinet ministers from the left ... should dictate to the Israeli government what agreement it should reach with the Palestinians," said Justice Minister Tommy Lapid, a moderate in the Cabinet.
i love it! but i wonder how the rest of the arab states will look upon it. in particular, syria, which still has a territorial dispute with israel.
Sharon and the more radical Palestinian elements will both use this as an excuse for going after each other. What will happen first? 1) Sharon will bomb some heavily populated apt complexes with a Hamas leader or two within, killing innocents or 2) there will be a suicide bomber? As we can see, Sharon is already threatened and against it. Sadly, I bet the Tom Delays and the Likud types surrounding Bush are probably against it, too. Maybe there could be a UN resolution in support of it, though the US would veto it at Israel's request. It is an exellent attempt, though.
but i wonder how the rest of the arab states will look upon it. in particular, syria, which still has a territorial dispute with israel. Why does the Syria dispute have to be resolved at the same time?
i totally agree, but hope for the best and ofcourse US and UK would veto it, even though like 60 other countries would like wats better for the world
I just heard about this on NPR. It sounds like a good idea. I really wish that there was a way to get the leadership on both sides to be serious about a just settlement and have them look at it. The trick is to not let terrorists derail the process. Surely they will commit suicide bombings, but I think the process should continue. Don't give the terrorists the power. With that understanding in place, I think it would stand a much greater chance of working.
i dont think this helps the process either http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...4/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_gaza&cid=540&ncid=716
Now would be the time for Bush to show some leadership and come out strongly in favor of the plan... just as it is and without equivocation. That would shock me. We'll see.
Yep I've seen that. It's only one incident in a long line of Israeli actions that jeopardize peace. That kind of thing is exactly what I was talking about in my post. The Israelis need to not use terrorism as an excuse for more incursions and reoccupations.
With an admitted lack of knowledge on the ME... An agreement is reached among " former left-wing Cabinet ministers, centrist generals and legislators allied with Israel's opposition..." and the extremists on both sides appear to downplay and/or portray it as disingenuous to their respective political agendas. I'm probably totally ignorant on the subject but my gut level feeling tells me that the Palestinian and Israeli mothers want their sons and daughters to live in peace a whole lot more than the politicians who have the ability to pursue it.
GATER, To come to an agreement like this, by almost any semi-official parties from both sides is huge. Even if it doesn't fly as is, it has apparently tackled some of the thorniest issues. Now what happens? Well, it's out there, and that's a start.
Cohen - Never intended to (personally) downplay the signifcance. Agreed, it is a truly major revelation. However, I just had/have a question as to whether the very top Israeli and Palestinian leaders are concerned about peace or advancing their own agendas. Is it just a coincidence that Israeli Prime Minister Rabin who favored peace was assasinated by a countryman and Arafat's hand-picked PM is wanting to quit 3 weeks into the job? I don't know, but it's noteworthy. Maybe Sting should re-write his "Russians" song and use the ME.
you're right. it doesn't have to be resolved at the same time. it's just that i thought if everything can be fixed in one fell swoop that'd be nice. but hey any progress is good. but of course the neglected parties will continue to support terrorism until their own aims are achieved. and that may ruin the process for everyone else...
GATER, I didn't think you were diminishing anything. You just mentioned a lack of knowledge on the ME, so I was just emphasizing the import of even an unofficial agreement like this one. I agree with your questioning of the ME leadership. Wonder what the ME would be like if Sadat and Rabin were both still alive, and Arafat was somewhere else.
The encouraging thing is that it is a document that was agreed upon by the People and not a foreign goverment. DD
Agreed. I certainly hope for the best and any kind of roadmap that could lead to peace should be considered.
No worries... the Conservatives in Israel and the U.S have thrown this idea in the trash.. Conservatives Blast Left-Wing Israelis' Deal With Palestinians By Julie Stahl CNSNews.com Jerusalem Bureau Chief October 14, 2003 Jerusalem (CNSNews.com) - Israeli and American conservatives are blasting negotiations between far-left Israelis and Palestinians that reportedly produced a "peace deal." At a meeting in Jordan, the two factions discussed Israel giving up sovereignty over the Temple Mount and the Palestinians giving up the so-called "right of return" for Palestinian refugees. Left-wing Israeli intellectuals, politicians and retired military personnel -- led by one of the architects of the Oslo process, Yossi Beilin -- met over the weekend with their Palestinian counterparts, headed by former Palestinian Authority Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo, to wrap up the details of a plan known as the "Geneva initiative." According to reports about the content of the agreement, which was not signed, the Palestinians would concede their longstanding demand that several hundred thousand refugees displaced in 1948 and millions of their descendants be allowed to move into Israel. Israel would withdraw from most of the West Bank, including some large Jewish settlements, and Jerusalem would be divided with the Palestinians taking control of the Temple Mount. The Palestinians would promise to tackle the terror issue and recognize Israel as a Jewish state, reports have said. 'A shame' The Israeli government had no official reaction but Israeli ministers condemned the proposed agreement. Uzi Landau, the minister who oversees US-Israeli strategic dialogue, said he was "furious" about the meetings and the reported deal. Israel came to its senses and understood that it cannot negotiate with terrorists and fired these people in democratic elections, Landau said. "[They were] thrown out of office by the biggest majority ever and now they have the audacity [to continue with their]... destructive strategy," Landau said. Worse still, Israel has finally convinced the international community that the only way to deal with terror is "either to fight the terrorists or we fight you. [Now] these guys go out and shake hands with the terrorists and those that send them," he added. http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=\ForeignBureaus\archive\200310\FOR20031014c.html
