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Indian Doctor Lowers the price of heart surgery

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Air Langhi, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    Intelligent people to save peoples lives? Thats nice if you're Watching ER on Television but most physicians don't deal with life or death scenarios on a perpetual basis and that in no way should allow a profession to be subsidized by consumers based on cartel type behavior by physician groups.

    Physicians salaries were outrageous in the 1970's and 1980's. They've finally come down from astronomical levels but are still outrageous relative to the value provided.

    The real flaw is it is not a competitive pay system. Much like a Teachers Union, Doctors get paid from Insurance, Medicare/Medicaid etc. at the same levels despite their credentials. Should an amazingly trained 20 year experienced physician charge the same as a foreign medical graduate from a weak educational system that just began practicing?

    No. It should be based on their merit. But we've socialized the system and created artificial shortages (meaning declining med school acceptance rates and higher costs therefore huge debt upon completion). This has adversely affected society and cost society more and subsidized physician income because of that shortage.

    The entitlement belief and arrogance of physicians is truly striking to me. They've simply convinced themselves that they've worked so much harder and struggled more than anyone and have the arrogance to believe that despite a large professional class virtually all in the top 2-3% of income earners in this country yet are still complaining and whining about 3-4 years of working 80 hours and a $200k in debt that anyone coming out of Law School, Business School etc. would have. Hell people are averaging almost 100,000 in debt coming out of the scams known as Art Institute's which then only provide $30-$40k salaries.

    Its like i'm being sacreligious to many people pointing out a gross systemic exploitation of American's finances by a class of profession.

    I believe in making tremendous amounts of money for people that bring down costs, scale their business and provide innovation and service to society. Not to those propped up by a convoluted sytem and artificial price controls, cartel like organizations mismanaging to create shortages and then a class of people with the hubris to think they work so miuch harder than others and are beyond reproach.

    Healthcare in this country is horrendous. The service is terrible, the billing convoluted. We spend more than anyone....15% of US GDP is healthcare spending with 8% from consumers and around 6% government subsidies into healthcare. That is a unsustainable situation that tears at the fabric of our society and has its hand in the bankruptcies of cities, companies and the like to subsidize an industry and set of people.

    I for one do not wish to stand by idly and then be faced with arrogant entitlement.
     
  2. arif1127

    arif1127 Contributing Member
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    Time for you to run for office, sir.
     
  3. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Don't know who you've come across, but most physicians in this country work hard... Even after residency. It's a thankless job that involves unpredictable hours, weekends, etc despite if you've been in the field 25+ years. Most practicing physicians have been doing so for several years at decreasing annual pay, with longer hours and sicker patients.


    Most physicians would gladly accept a pay for performance model. Most would love to bill for their time like most lawyers do. Unfortunately those who need healthcare the most in this country are unlikely to be able to afford it, with astronomical fees that are set forth not by doctors but by hospitals and insurance companies. Additionally, doctors are obligated to do their job and treat patients regardless of whether or not they will actually get paid.

    The real entitlement comes in the form of this nations citizens who take their health for granted and don't do the required maintenance to ensure that they will continue to stay in good health... But when the **** hits the fan, they expect to be taken care of and not have to pay anything.
     
  4. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Contributing Member
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    good lord the ignorance is painful in here. I always find it interesting that those who know the least about a profession seem to think they know the most...about trains as well
     
  5. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Agreed... either de"rail" this thread towards talking about trains, or I'm out! :grin:
     
  6. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    That is a crock. Thankless? Doctors are revered in society, respected, have TV shows about them and earn in the top 2-3% of all income earners in this country???

    What the hell else do they want????


    The sense of entitlement is really, really ridiculous Nick.
     
  7. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    Go picket at Rockets games then. Professional athletes make millions. Why does no one b**** about them?
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I'd say they'd rather be left alone when everybody criticizes them as the source of what is wrong in healthcare, when they have very little control over the hospitals, drug and insurance companies... the real criminals.

    I'd say they'd rather not be criticized for being hard workers and earners in a country that rewards several other professions for far less work, with limited criticism.

    I never hear complaints about disparities between lawyers income in the US vs abroad... or business executives income between the US and abroad... but physicians are always singled out as insignificant/replaceable and somebody who's "lucky" to be where they are.

    Nobody questions anything when they can't see their auto mechanic on the weekend, or their accountant won't be available to review things on a Sunday... but doctors are expected to be there for their patients at all times (and rightly so).

    And for all the things you mentioned above, its funny that all those aspects are furthest from the culture of the profession as possible... and are mostly pointed out by those with the least knowledge of the current practice of medicine.
     
  9. da1

    da1 Member

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    Business executives are criticized all the time. Lawyers work way more hours than doctors.
     
  10. da1

    da1 Member

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    Great post
     
  11. da1

    da1 Member

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    Left alone? LOL. Criticism is warranted, they may not be the entire problem but part of it.
     
  12. Mr. Brightside

    Mr. Brightside Contributing Member

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    Becoming a lawyer is incrementally easier than becoming a doctor. Look up the hours one works as a medical resident and for what pay. Law is so much easier, that there is an excess of legal professionals now and a shortage of doctors in most areas. Nowadays you can get a legal degree online. Can't say that for medicine.
     
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Fixed it for you. Delusion has completely set in on this thread now... I'm out for good.
     
  14. blink

    blink Contributing Member

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    emergency doc here, let me make it real clear

    1. you put a fckton of hours into medicine. 80 hours/week? yeah, that's what regulations tell you to document but you're really putting in 100-120 hours/week. your balls are gripped by your senior physician, patients and many other hands. entitled? i'm just trying to make it through the day on 5 monster energy drinks and a breakfast burrito i had 8 hours ago.

    2. 45k during residency is more than the average american makes? cool. work 120hours/week and that works out to making $7.90/hour.

    3. billing? the hospital does that, not the doctors. we just do our job and document whatever we're seeing/treating. they take what we do, mess around with accounting and magically keep the hospital open, even though many of the people i treat dont have insurance.

    4. doctors are revered? tell that to the patients i see everyday. it's a mother fcking drive through to the general population. "give me this, give me that. i waited an hour, i want what i want, i dont care what you say" sorry, i dont ever feel revered or appreciated.

    5. doctors dont call to see how you're doing? when was the last time you called to say thank you? you see 1 doctor. your doctor sees 1000's of patients.

    6. i have worked much harder than most people. that's just a fact. it's not bragging, it's actually quite sad. i have many friends in many different fields other than medicine and i can say i work harder than mostly all of them, some by a lot, some by a little.

    7. 150-200k debt is probably the lower end of how much med school will cost you. you dont choose how much you pay, the school does. is that the doctors fault? no. if you go east or west coast, it's going to cost more. interest just doubled.

    8. take care of yourselves you overindulgent, lard eating, cigarette smoking, alcohol binging asshat.

    9. i dont presume to know what it takes to be in a profession other than medicine. why? because i havent done it. im not going to sit here and talk out of my ass about a profession i've never done when i have no idea what it takes and all that it entails.

    10. im smarter in the sciences than most people. sorry, it's true. ive tutored college students and medical school hopefuls. i wouldn't want most of them treating me, my friends or family. you have to be smart and dedicated. it takes stones and sacrifice to make it all the way through med school and even then i would only want a handful of physicians treating me.

    11. you have to wait an extra 30mins to see your doctor? im sorry, i had to take an extra 5 or 10minutes here with another patient because they had something more pressing to deal with, your case was less life threatening; you're not special and im not going to baby you. that's my style, other doctors will hold your hand.

    12. just because there are a few dirty cops doesnt mean theyre all dirty. just because there are a few dirty accountants, doesnt mean theyre all dirty. just because theyre a few money grubbing doctors, dont mean theyre all like that. it's disgusting the antagonistic nature of some patients to their doctor. we're here to help you so stop being a little **** and let me help you.
     
    4 people like this.
  15. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    Post of the year. Put these ignorant assholes in their place.
    [​IMG]
     
  16. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    Repped for the response and for your hard work
     
  17. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    Dude...so much win in this post!!
    Thank you!!
     
  18. Zboy

    Zboy Contributing Member

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    My wife is very accomplished. A B.Sc. in engineering from one of the best engineering schools in the country, a Masters and a PhD in Nanoscale Engineering and Tissue engineering with over 7 published research papers as first authors in high impact journals and several others as second authors. She is currently a post doctoral fellow at Harvard Medical school.

    Now she is thinking about applying to med school. Given her credentials, I dont think she is going to have any difficulty getting in, and I will support her should she commit to it, but I do wonder if its even worth it. At one point, I too contemplated med school, but my friends that are doctors, quickly persuaded me to stay away.

    PS. Whats the point of going to India to save $$ on heart surgery if you gonna get raped?
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    It would definitely give her added avenues to accentuate her research, if that's one of the reasons she wants to do it.

    I feel that job satisfaction is of utmost importance especially when you spend half your life training to get there. If she's got the drive to complete the training, I'd support her. Once she has completed residency, she'll have a variety of options (research, clinical, teaching).
     
  20. Crudder

    Crudder Member

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    I'm going to go ahead and leave this here...

    http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/me...nsation-survey-fixed-vs-variable-sources.aspx

    tl;dr: Physician pay accounts for 8.6% of total US Healthcare Costs using MGMA data (which most physicians would consider highly inflated).

    Also, I think the real issue behind the perpetuation of the myth that doctors get paid too much is that it's the easy answer. Doctors are easy to blame especially when people are tasked with figuring out our convoluted healthcare system. Furthermore, most people can remember a bad experience with a doctor and hear about their ridiculous salaries in the media.

    Also, a lot of posters mentioned that they aren't sure about receiving heart surgery with this Indian Doctor b/c of issues like cut AC, third party vendors for sterilizing equipment, etc...and yet, the grim reality is that in the very near future, you may be receiving healthcare from a nurse or a PA with much less training and experience that physicians go through due to cost cutting measures. For your normal hypertension or diabetes management, that may be fine. But when life gets complicated (which it inevitably will), you tell me who you'd rather have. I already know the answer for myself.

    So if you ask me if doctors get paid too much, I'll tell you you are asking the wrong questions.
     

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