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Incredible 2 to 3,000 at Houston Demo Today.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Feb 15, 2003.

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  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I've been going to these things for years. This is the biggest one I can remember in Houston. Among the notable speakers were Jim Hightower and an aid for Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee from Houston, who gave her regrets that she couldn't be there.

    BTW did you all see that Sheila had the courage to be just one of 6 congress people to sign on to a lawsuit to try to get an injunction against Bush for starting a war without An Act of War from Congress. Way to go Sheila!!
     
  2. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    do we have to officially declare war again if the treaty was broken?
     
  3. Earl Cureton

    Earl Cureton Member

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    The place was packed with lesbians. And not the kind you see in movies, the other 'ellen degeneres' kind. :(
     
  4. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Member

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    That is definitely some courage because she is basically signing her political death sentence... Then again, the way the districts are drawn out she is probably untouchable....
     
  5. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Wow, 3000 out of 6 million in the Greater Houston/Galveston area!!

    At this rate, you guys will have the support you need in about 20 years.
     
  6. Mrs. JB

    Mrs. JB Member

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    How many turned out for the pro-war rally?
     
  7. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Good point, Robbie. Iraq signed a treaty to end the Gulf War. The deal was the US will stop the bombing, under the following conditions. One of those conditions was an elimination of weapons of mass destruction and proof that they were eliminated. Iraq has not lived up to its end of the bargain.

    What we are talking about when we talk about the US and it's multi-national coalition going into Iraq is not a new war. It is a resumption of hostilities due to Iraq's continuing non-compliance.
     
  8. 111chase111

    111chase111 Member

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    Well, no one as there are not very many "pro war" people. There are people who feel that Saddam is a threat (sooner or later) or who feel that he simply has what's coming to him because he broke the treaties that he signed which kept him in power after the last gulf war.

    Once again, this isn't an <i>anti-war</i> rally. It's an <i>anti-Bush</i> rally.

    But it's ironic as Bush hasn't started any wars (although Saddam has started a couple).

    What has Bush done?
    1. He's been <i>talking</i> about war for over a year.
    2. He got a resolution from Congress authorizing the use of force if necessary.
    3. He got a U.N. resolution authorizing force if Saddam did not agree to disarm.
    4. He's been waiting for the inspectors to do their job.
    5. The inspectors are not there to find weapons but to verify that Saddam is disarming (which their reports say he's not).
    6. He's still waiting for inspectors to do their job.

    The U.N., on the other hand, has not been doing it's job! They sent the inspectors in to verify is Saddam was disarming and they have verified that he is not. But somehow they've changed the role of the inspectors from one of verifying disarmerment to one of weapons discovery. And NO ONE thinks they'll find anything given that Iraq is so large and there are so few inspectors.

    I really don't want to see a war! However I really, really feel that we have to act like we are going to go into Iraq and kill Saddam and we have to act like we are unwavering in that position in order to get anything done.

    Anyone here notice that neither the U.N. nor Saddam would have done anything if it weren't for the strong, agressive stance of the U.S.?

    Would the inpectors be in there right now?
    Would Iraq let U.N. survailence planes fly over?

    If you really care for the people of Iraq then you'd be marching against Saddam Hussein.
     
  9. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Zero, because nobody wants war.

    Nobody wants to put our Police Officers in harm's way either, but allowing criminals to run free is just not an option. Saddam is nothing more that a criminal thug who threatens our collective safety. Two thirds of the country agree with me, and that is why the vast majority of Americans stayed home.
     
  10. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Great post. If I would have read your post, I would not have commented further.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    Two thirds of the country agree with me, and that is why the vast majority of Americans stayed home.

    Really?

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr030211.asp

    <I>Despite the generally supportive views of a possible war with Iraq, Americans are not willing for the United States to initiate military action without another U.N. vote authorizing the action. Just 39% of Americans take that point of view, while another 34% say they would support an invasion only if the United Nations holds a new vote, and 23% are opposed regardless. Thus, without a new U.N. vote, 57% of Americans are opposed.
    </I>

    A minority of Americans think we should attack Iraq without another UN vote.
     
  12. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Aaah, but we will ask for another UN vote, won't we.

    Look, if we act through the UN, over 2/3 rds of Americans want Saddam removed. Since we are acting in a multilateral fashion, your poll is meaningless.
     
  13. Major

    Major Member

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    Aaah, but we will ask for another UN vote, won't we.

    Look, if we act through the UN, over 2/3 rds of Americans want Saddam removed. Since we are acting in a multilateral fashion, your poll is meaningless.


    Except your UN vote won't pass right now, because a mass majority of the Security Council countries are now outright opposed to it, including 3 of the 5 veto-capable members.

    Bush botched the public opinion side of this and he's going to have to give up a lot of concessions in other areas if he somehow expects UN support.
     
  14. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    I disagree. The next vote will give Saddam a short time to fully comply, or face military action.

    When Saddam fails to comply, a large coalition of nations will support our position.

    Only time will tell which of us is correct.
     
  15. Refman

    Refman Member

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    Oh yeah...so bold...especially considering that Congress approved military action against Iraq MONTHS ago. I guess Queen Shiela was too busy having her nails done and yelling at limo drivers to attend that vote. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    glynch: Never EVER use Shelia as a reference for anything like this. I'm liberal and even I think she's completely ineffective at best, a total disaster at worst. This is a woman who took the place of Barbara Jordan and Mickey Leland. Not exactly a fitting legacy for them.

    There's a saying in politics about her:

    The most dangerous place on earth to be is between Shelia Jackson Lee and a television camera. :)
     
  17. Refman

    Refman Member

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    I actually liked Barbara Jordan. I didn't agree with her politics, but she never came across as thinking she was more imortant than the office she held. That is more than I can say for Shiela Jackson Lee.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Jeff, I think you are really missing the boat on Sheila. BTW, I don't consider Sheila to be perfect. I actually actively campaigned for Craig Washington, when Sheila ran against him. You may be correct that Sheila likes publicity. This may even be something of a flaw. I heartedly approve of her action and leadership on this issue of peace.

    Since you describe yourself as a liberal here's your chance to make it clear whether you approve of Sheila's action in this particular case, even if you dislike her personally for whatever reason.

    Are you suggesting that Sheila has done this merely for publicity? If so, tell me exactly how you feel like this will help her political career in Houston? Are you aware of how the politcal establishment can change the boundaries of her district and run a moderate well funded African American against her? That her district is ony 50% African American? It would be a shame if you let an old cliche, or your personal feelings make you fail to support the only liberal congress person in Houston.

    You worked for Lee Brown. Do you consider him to be a perfect politician as you apparently idealize Mickey Leland, for instance? BTW both my wife and I had a fair amount of dealings with him. Like Sheila many accused him of being ineffective. Sheila is definitely a much harder worker than Mickey was. He voted right in Congress, probably his most important function.

    Please clarify whether you approve the substance of Sheila'S action.
     
  19. Vengeance

    Vengeance Member

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    The police estimated today's crowd at around 5,000!!! I would guess it was just a bit under that, but the turnout was great! This is the first time I've ever been to a protest or a rally or anything of this sort, and I *LOVED* it. I definitely have to start doing this more. So many people in the crowd were so passionate about their beliefs, and some of the protesters had very creative signs. Everyone was very orderly and upbeat -- no violence, no disorder, just well-organized assembly.

    There were a few people who were against the protesters -- about 12 to 15 pro-war folks, but they only stuck around for about 30 to 45 minutes. I got to the rally at 1:40 or so and just walked around, getting a feel for the crowd and what they were all about. At first, I didn't think there were all that many people out there, but I soon realized how many there were when we started marching. That was the LONGEST half-mile or so that I've ever walked because it took so freaking long. It must have taken almost an hour to get to the park. The crowd was so dense, it was worse than driving on I-10 during rush-hour. And it stretched out as far as one could see in either direction. I didn't bring a sign or anything, but I'll certainly do so in the future. Lots of drums, people with noise-makers and the chants would kindof come in cycles. Chant for 5 minutes and then it would die down for a few, then more chanting during the long walk to the park. I've really got to hand it to the city and to the organizers -- they did a great job of keeping everything very well-organized and easy to follow.

    The crowd itself was interesting. A fairly good representation of people -- Indian, African-American, white, Arab, Hispanic, etc., although it was more white than anything. What I was most surprised at though was the type of people. Trader_Jorge's assessment of the last protest being a bunch of freaks would have to be pretty misguided if it was anything like this one. There was certainly a strange element of off-beat people, but not too many -- the predominant age was in the 30 to 50 crowd, I'd say, with lots of older folks (60+) as well. Plenty of younger folks as well. Great to see so many people bring their children, too. I mean, these people are the same "normal" folks you see at Church, work, grocery-store, etc. Yet they all seemed to come from different walks of life -- there was a great representation of Houston in a socio-economic way.

    My only complaint would be that there were too many speakers. I stayed for the whole thing, and it finally ended around 5:30 or so. By the end, there weren't but a hundred or so of us still standing at the stage. I think they could've done with fewer speakers and kept a stronger crowd -- after about an hour, the crowd started to trickle out a little, but after two hours the crowd really left en masse. More chanting at the actual rally, and cut back on the 15+ speakers, but even so, it was still great!

    Probably my favorite of all the protesters was the guy in the giant George W. Bush head. I'd love to know how much time that thing took to make -- it was FANTASTIC!! HUGE too. I can't imagine how hot it must have been, not to mention how heavy. Towards the end, the Free Radicals played and they were great! I will definitely be checking them out more. Kindof reminded me of a more techno version of Galactic.

    To get 5,000 (heck, or even 3,000) people in Houston was really spectacular, especially considering the weather. The weather itself was spectacular, but only an hour before, it was looking pretty bad. Thankfully, it never rained, and it was a beautiful day. And just because "only" 5,000 people showed up doesn't mean that only 5,000 people who live in Houston are against the war -- it's just only 5,000 people knew about the protest and wanted to go. Not everyone who is against something can or wants to go demonstrate.

    Whether or not you agree with the protesters or not, you have got to give them a hand for standing up for what they believe in. This is democracy at its core! This is what America is all about. When you read the constitution, this is what they are talking about in the land of the free with the right to assemble and right to free speech. And by no means were the people anti-American in their senitment. There were many, MANY American Flags out there, and some had T-Shirts with flags on them or something "patriotic".

    I definitely will go to more demonstrations and things of this nature. While I am not in league with the all of the groups and interests represented today, I definitely agree with the majority of the beliefs and principles. And just to see so many people participating in democracy was such a great thing to re-inforce what America is all about. All in all a great day capped off by some Chili's baby-back ribs and a beer (or three).
     
  20. Refman

    Refman Member

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    They probably had to get back to their jobs. I know that I would have been down there screaming at the top of my lungs against the protest...except that I had to be at work.
     

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