In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

DallasThomas · Nov 1, 2011

Don't post if you don't have any news...

Too much debating and not enough news elsewhere.

Howard Beck
Looks like the federal mediator will not be rejoining NBA labor talks. Nor are any (non-mediated) talks scheduled. Will have more later.
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ascaptjack · Nov 1, 2011

sam_amick Sam Amick
Source says federal mediator George Cohen spoke w/ both NBA and @TheNBPA officials about another joint session but it will not be happening.

Keyser Soze · Nov 1, 2011

According to a report from Adrian Wojnarowski, Billy Hunter is "engaged in a smear campaign to frame (Derek) Fisher as a sellout to the league."

The report says Hunter wants to be known as the last person on the players' side that is willing to go to 50-50 to get a deal done with the owners.

“Right now, everyone has to choose sides: Billy or Derek,” one player involved in the labor process told Yahoo! Sports. “How the [expletive] did it come to this?”

Hunter walked out of negotiations on Friday by refusing to drop below 52 percent for the players' share of BRI.

“Billy can’t just say it’s 52 or nothing, and walk out again,” one league source involved the talks told Yahoo! Sports. “That will not happen again. It’s time that the players get to make a decision on this, and there won’t be another check lost before they do.”

J.R. · Nov 1, 2011

STEIN_LINE_HQ Marc Stein

RT @NBAonESPN: In letter sent to players, obtained by @STEIN_LINE_HQ, Billy Hunter urges players to stand strong: es.pn/w4RBEG
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ascaptjack · Nov 1, 2011

Gonna be a quiet week in regards to new CBA meetings.

ascaptjack · Nov 1, 2011

usat_jzillgitt Jeff Zillgitt by sam_amick
NBPA, NBA will meet in a U.S. district courtroom Wednesday to hear oral arguments on complaint NBA filed Aug. 2; NBPA wants case dismissed.

ascaptjack · Nov 1, 2011

RicBucher Ric Bucher
Players union will meet Thursday in NY to map out next move in negotiations, source says.

RicBucher Ric Bucher
Also: Hunter&Fisher will get matching dolphin tattoos on their ankles. OK, that part is not true. But they both will be there.

SBRadio Sports Biz Radio by sam_amick
After reading Hunter's letter its clear plyers have 0 plans 2 accept owner's most recent offer any time soon. Offers will only get worse tho

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
David Stern addresses Arison fine, owner unity and allegations of secret meeting w/Derek Fisher. nyti.ms/tdyxyO

HowardBeckNYT Howard Beck
David Stern addresses Arison fine, owner unity and allegations of secret meeting w/Derek Fisher. nyti.ms/tdyxyO

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/02/s...ited-that-huge-fine-notwithstanding.html?_r=1

Micky Arison employs two of the N.B.A.’s most electrifying talents. They came two wins short of the championship last June. Their arena is packed every night. Arison’s wildly profitable franchise, the Miami Heat, is worth an estimated $425 million.
Enlarge This Image

Mary Altaffer/Associated Press

Miami Heat owner Micky Arison created a bit of a stir when he tweeted, "You're barking at the wrong owner" to a fan upset about the lockout.

Keep up with the latest news, on the court and off, with The Times's basketball blog.

So does Arison want the lockout to end as soon as possible? Absolutely.

Is he more eager to cut a deal with the players union than some other owners? Almost certainly.

How do we know? Arison said so, or typed it anyway, last Friday night on Twitter.

After an angry fan berated Arison for “ruining the best game in the world” and accused the owners of acting like “greedy pigs,” Arison responded, “You are barking at the wrong owner.”

Thus collapsed the artificial edifice of N.B.A. owner solidarity.

On Monday, Arison was fined — a staggering $500,000, according to reports — for exposing an apparent fissure that, until now, was mostly just assumed.

For months, Commissioner David Stern has insisted that the league’s 29 owners are unified in the goals, methods and necessity of the lockout, which is in its fifth month.

He maintains that stance, Arison’s glib posting notwithstanding.

“He believes his tweets were taken out of context and understands our concern about them,” Stern said Tuesday in a telephone interview. “And he’s very much on board with the other 29 owners about the deal that we want.”

If fans and commentators view Arison’s words as a declaration of self-interest, an attempt to distance himself from the more hawkish factions, Stern said he understood it. Arison himself conceded “that it might have had that impression,” Stern said, “but he didn’t intend it to.”

The punishment leaves its own stark impression. The $500,000 fine is five times that of those levied on two other owners — Charlotte’s Michael Jordan and Washington’s Ted Leonsis — for labor-related comments.

Without confirming the amount, Stern acknowledged that the fine was tailored to the circumstances, but not because of what Arison wrote.

“It was more about his timing,” Stern said, noting that the message appeared on the very night that negotiations collapsed. “We’re trying very hard to get a deal done with the players, or we were, and we don’t need any external distractions to that focus.”

At the moment, there are no talks, and none planned. Negotiators briefly discussed bringing back George Cohen, the federal mediator who presided over three days of talks last month. But Stern said that Cohen would not be returning.

Tuesday was supposed to be opening night, with two marquee matchups: Mavericks-Bulls and Lakers-Thunder. But the arenas are dark and tensions are rapidly increasing in the absence of games.

While Stern tries to keep his owners in line, the union is showing its own cracks — a flurry of reports indicating that its president, Derek Fisher, and its executive director, Billy Hunter, are at odds. One report said that Fisher secretly met with Stern and the deputy commissioner Adam Silver in an attempt to make a deal.

“That would be false,” Stern said.

The prospect of a fractured union would be bad news for everyone, making it that much tougher to negotiate a deal. The union already has the difficult challenge of keeping 430 players on board and on message.

The task is easier for Stern, who has 29 constituents to corral, and the threat of huge fines to maintain the illusion of solidarity.

Undoubtedly, the owners are unified on the most basic goal: to secure the best possible deal, with the maximum amount of concessions from the union. Shorter, cheaper contracts benefit all owners. Reducing the players’ share of revenue will help stabilize the league.

But how far do the owners need to push? How long does the lockout, now 125 days old, need to last? What is the tolerable threshold for canceled games, lost revenue and alienated fans?

On those questions, the owners cannot possibly be as unified as advertised.

The owners of the Heat, the Knicks, the Lakers, the Celtics and the Bulls do not need a system reset. They are thriving financially. But many of their peers are not, and they are standing together in recognition of their partnership.

Also, and not inconsequentially, the superwealthy teams do not have the votes to end the lockout. So united they stand.

A year ago, the Heat completed one of the greatest free-agent coups in sports history, signing LeBron James and pairing him with Dwyane Wade. Their exhilarating season ended in Game 6 of the finals.

How badly does Arison want to see them back on the court? Badly enough that he drew a line between himself and his hardliner peers. His Twitter message seemed clear: If you are upset about the lockout, complain to the owners who are holding out for a better deal. Some of us want to play.

Arison later deleted the message. But the damage was done.

Stern did acknowledge one divide between his owners: those who are in favor of the deal the union rejected last week — a 50-50 split of revenue and no hard salary cap — and those who are “rethinking” that offer.

“But I believe that a majority of teams are in favor of making the deal that we were offering to the players,” Stern said. “And I’m trying very hard to keep that deal on the table.”
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Keyser Soze · Nov 1, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

RicBucher Ric Bucher
Players union will meet Thursday in NY to map out next move in negotiations, source says.
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<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/xSLlZh9yelk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

DaDakota · Nov 1, 2011

The players have no choice, take the deal or go broke.

DD

RedRedemption · Nov 1, 2011

DaDakota said: ↑

The players have no choice, take the deal or go broke.

DD
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Nobody is going broke so far...

opticon · Nov 1, 2011

DaDakota said: ↑

The players have no choice, take the deal or go broke.

DD
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Please stick to Thread rules DD you know better.

heypartner · Nov 2, 2011

DaDakota said: ↑

The players have no choice, take the deal or go broke.

DD
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can't you allow us to have a simple news feed thread as DallasThomas requested?

According to a report from Adrian Wojnarowski, Billy Hunter is "engaged in a smear campaign to frame (Derek) Fisher as a sellout to the league."
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hmnmm...here are statements by Hunter, Fisher and Stern:

Hunter said:

In a letter sent Tuesday night to NBA players and obtained by ESPN.com, Hunter wrote: "Contrary to what is being said in the media, Derek, myself and the Negotiating Committee are of one accord. Derek is a fearless defender of player rights both at the bargaining table and behind the scenes, and he carries out his duties as President with the same degree of courage, focus and tenacity that he has exhibited on the court as a five-time champion. We are all well served to have Derek in a leadership capacity during these negotiations."
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Derrik Fisher said:

Later Tuesday night, after the release of Hunter's letter, Fisher took it a step further, issuing a statement in which he revealed that he has "issued a letter through my attorneys demanding a retraction for the libelous and defamatory stories the site and reporter have continued to publish."

Fisher said: "The statements made in recent articles on the Fox Sports website are inexcusable. Among the many baseless accusations, to allege that I am working with the league for my personal gain is unequivocally false. The implication that I am doing anything but working in the best interests of the players is disgusting, defamatory and a flat out lie.

"Regardless of the media reports, the Players Association, our staff, Executive Director and Executive Committee are unified and working side by side to serve our players," Fisher continued. "There should be no more distractions. We must continue to negotiate a fair deal for our players."
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Stern said:

Yet in an interview with the New York Times, Stern likewise tried to downplay the severity of fissures within the owners' camp and offered his own rebuttal to the FoxSports.com allegations about Fisher meeting separately with Stern and Silver to perhaps strike a secret deal without Hunter.

"That would be false," Stern said.
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JuanValdez · Nov 2, 2011

11/2/2011 9:14 am: Still locked out.

(btw, heyp, you need a link.)

heypartner · Nov 2, 2011

JuanValdez,

The Stern quote is from the NY Times link posted above. All three are in ESPN's NBA top story:

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7179759/nba-lockout-nbpa-meet-thursday-discuss-move-sources-say

ascaptjack · Nov 2, 2011

bcuban Brian Cuban by HowardBeckNYT
The owners are publicly not at 51 percent but I suspect they have 1 percent in their back pocket to close this out.

Would the union accept a 51/49 BRI split?

Convictedstupid · Nov 2, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

bcuban Brian Cuban by HowardBeckNYT
The owners are publicly not at 51 percent but I suspect they have 1 percent in their back pocket to close this out.

Would the union accept a 51/49 BRI split?
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Big baby would:

iambigbaby11 Glen Davis
Take the 51% man and let's play.

ascaptjack · Nov 2, 2011

iambigbaby11 Glen Davis
Take the 51% man and let's play.

It would be interesting to see how many players would actually vote in favor of a 50/50 split.

Davis is just one of many rank and file players who feels this way.

God I wish the Shane Battier's and Grant Hills had more of a say on this matter.

ascaptjack · Nov 2, 2011

SportsLawGuy Gabe Feldman by HowardBeckNYT
Not typical at this stage,but is possible that judge in NBA-NBPA case will assign a mediator to get the 2 sides talking again.

ascaptjack · Nov 2, 2011

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Think you were fooled by Stern/Hunter's optimism last week? Several team execs told me they were working around the clock, believing...

ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
...that a deal would be in place by Friday. "We were shocked," a West GM told SI. "Every indication we had was the deal was there."

ascaptjack · Nov 2, 2011

ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
Those asking: Nothing resolved today in @TheNBPA's motion to dismiss NBA's suit. Judge questioned both sides aggressively.

ZachLowe_SI Zach Lowe
Both sides got in some good zingers, and this court case may be the only forum in which the league attempts to make union into scary bully

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