in terms of potential: ming/griff = jabbar/worthy?

Damn those "experts"!

I agree with what you said, except that Griffin will achieve a lot more than James Worthy ever did. Just look!

 

I don't think you can begin to compare Yao with Kareem, especially not at this point. Kareem came out of college with unparalleled stardom - the kind that forces rule-changes. That's a very unfair comparison for a relatively unknown rookie from a country that's never produced anything of true value in the basketball world to date.

The only way Yao Ming could ascend to any kind of Kareem status would be if he somehow exhibited greater than Hakeem-like footwork, incredible outside shooting, great shotblocking ability - things like this. You're talking about someone who revolutionizes the game. Not much revolutionizing is going on these days.

You could argue that Kevin Garnett is doing a pretty good job revolutionizing our perceptions of a 7 footer. I don't perceive Kevin Garnett as being Kareem status at all. Yao has to exceed that? I just don't see it.


Can Griffin compare to Worthy? Maybe someday. Get him inside the arc and we'll see.

 

Exactly the bottom line. It's WAY too early to compare Griff to Worthy. And please don't understate Worthy's career. The guy was amazing, just a machine, and it doesn't all show up in stats. We would be so lucky if Griff became anything close to Worthy.

 

<blockQUOTE>Originally posted by DarkHorse
The only way Yao Ming could ascend to any kind of Kareem status would be if he somehow exhibited greater than Hakeem-like footwork, incredible outside shooting, great shotblocking ability - things like this.</blockQUOTE>Darkhorse,

I agree with your quote. That's how I measure centers, too. But, I think Yao is showing "incredible outside shooting" *right now* for a center. Definitely as good as Kareem. I also think he has the mindset and will to surpass Kareem in passing ability.

What I consider unfair is to say that Yao has to revolutionize something that Kareem already revolutionized as a predecessor. Has Shaq revolutionized anything that Wilt already didn't do???

I firmly believe that Yao (with that shooting and a commitment to high post passing) can match Kareem's career (and I don't mean stats, just dominance in a relative sense).

anyhow, the title of the thread was

"<b>in terms of potential</b>"

And I think Jabbar is the best example of Yao's top potential; it is so hard to compare him to anyone, though, especially if he shows up with, or learns, Walton/Divac/Sabonis passing.

 

Griffin will have to work a great deal on his ball handling to be like Worthy. I guess that is really not the question, though...just if he can be overall as much of an impact as Worthy. Possibly. Worthy was amazing.

I am still remaining optimistically cautious in regards to Yao. I will not say he will be as great overall as Kareem...I would like a little evaluation first. However, since Kareem was more of a "complimentary power" on the Lakers team, Yao could certainly provide a similar role, with the optimistically cautious chance of being better.

If Steve becomes a better assist man with the rise in talent, this team could look similar to the 80's Lakers.

Magic-Steve: points, assists rebounds all high for a PG (maybe a strecth with the Magic comparison, but you get the idea)

Scott-Cat: great complimentary backcourt scorer

Role players-role players: SF was always being changed for the Lakers and was the least important position, similar to the Rockets

Worthy-Griffin: versatility, inside-outside game at the 4

Kareem-Ming: solid scoring, rebounding, and blocks, with an "unstopable" go to move for crunch time...solid passers

All of this is obviously based on potential and down the road, but it would be nice.

 

Worthy never played the 4 he played the 3. Clark Kent aka Kurt Rambis played the 4 in the early 80's and A.C. Green played the 4 from the mid to late 80's. Worthy was a finals MVP and yearly all-star at the 3.

 

And interesting idea, verse. They may play different positions (although we really don't know for sure where Griff will end up... he will probably play all 3 frontcourt spots at one time or another), but their demeanor is strikingly similar. James always seemed to quietly kill you during games and Griff could be the same. If Eddie has improved during the off-season like we've heard and Yao comes on strong in the second half we may get a taste of it this year. Next season may give us a clearer picture. It would be great if Griff made a "Worthy" impact on the Rocks.

 

Worthy did, at times, play the 4. I know he spent a lot of time at the 3, though...he was a "tweener" but in a positive way. Griffin, if he ever gets handles, would be the same.

Anyway, I needed him at the four to fit my comparison (and since it was the original comparison). Also, since he produced 4-like numbers, it worked.

 

The Lakers did indeed have two lineups. They used McAdoo in it at first, then later Worthy. With Worthy, wasn't there a lot of Magic, Scott, Cooper, Worthy minutes out there together to force Boston to sit McHale down??

 

He was 6'9" so he had the height and certainly the heart so you are probably right.

Here are a couple of other comparisons for you:

Witl Chamberlain and Nate Thurmond

and...

Bill Walton and Kevin McHale (when they were on the court together)

I actually think Mings skills are comparable to Waltons and while Eddie has not shown McHale like post moves he does have more range on his shot.

Of course the comparisons are just for impact purposes but I agree with your point that once Yao and Eddie learn to play together and mature they could develop into one of the best front courts of all time while impacting the game and their team like some of the former greats that we have seen.

 

Shaq revolutionized officiating. He legalized the forearm shiver for a certain player.

I, too, think Yao has a chance to have a Kareem - type impact, mainly because of his height. Kareem had a virtually unstoppable shot. Some of us remember the very few times his skyhook was blocked (Bill Willoughby), but it was unstoppable about 99.9% of the time. What a weapon in a close game against a good team. I can see the same thing happening with Yao. He should be able to develop one or even maybe two or three moves that will be virtually impossible to defend with one player. I also think he has the mindset and skill to find the open team mate if the opposition sends multiple defenders at him.

Worthy was a great player in his own right. Absolutely deadly finishing the break and a move across the lane from either side that was too quick for any defender at his position.

Eddie hasn't shown that quick move, but will probably turn out to be better defensively and will probably continue with better range to his offense. Teamed with Yao and Steve and Cat, I think Eddie will have the same impact, with a different game than Worthy.

 

If we're talking Kareem of the 80's, by which time he had started to take a back seat to Magic but was still pretty much unstoppable with that hook shot, then I could see possible comparisons to Ming talent-wise and impact-wise.

But Kareem of the late 60s and 70s? I don't think so. This guy was an absolute killer. Between his years with the Bucks and Lakers he got what, 5 league MVP awards in that time span? I can't see Ming even coming close to that.

 

Turn Steve into a Magic type point guard (pass first - shoot second) and Griffin could be like Worthy.

 

Correction: 6 MVP awards.

 

I didn't mean to say that he never played the 4 but he was the starting 3 and that was his recognized position. The small forward spot for the Lakers was not always being changed and I'm not sure you can say 5 rebounds and less than 1 block a game are power forward type numbers (don't use MoT against me).

In any event I didn't mean get this thread off topic. The Worthy and Kareem impact may be a good comparison to the potential impact of Yao and Griffin.

 

Moe, anyone that watches the sport every Sunday knows that the forearm shiver is an integral part of the sport and has been for years.... Oh wait a minute.... that’s football. Sorry.

 

Kareem won 4 MVP titles during the ABA era.

We can rest assured that Dr J would have won one of those. That was a watered down league, imo.

The NBA was missing these guys:

Dr. J
George McGinnis
Moses Malone
Dan Issel
David Thompson
George Gervin
Artis Gilmore
Rick Barry

Are we really to believe one of those guys wouldn't have won an MVP, in those yrs Kareem was going title-less, especially since Cowens and McAdoo did.

4 of Kareem's MVPs are asterix awards, imo. The Kareem in 1980 was just as dominant, and Ming has that potential, imo.

 

Good point HP, I'll have to come up with some other metric to prove Kareem's dominance vs. Ming's potential.