1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

In 5 Years, has Steve Improved?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Tb-Cain, Nov 30, 2003.

Tags:
  1. Tb-Cain

    Tb-Cain Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 1999
    Messages:
    2,722
    Likes Received:
    64
    Taking a look at Steve's career statistics, I can't see one area of his game that he has improved on. Not decision-making, distribution, ball-handling, rebounding, defense, shooting, nothing.

    Who is the last star player you can think of who didn't make strides from year to year before hitting a plateau? Steve has been a model of consistency, but I would expect more.

    It looks as though Steve came into the league as good as he's gonna get.
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,803
    Likes Received:
    20,461
    IF you are looking just at stats it wouldn't appear that STeve has improved.

    If you look at STeve taking shots more in the flow, and playing togher defense, then on the whole this year he has improved.

    With the system the Rockets are running now, Steve may actually pass more and receive fewer assists. There were several plays last night including the pick and roll with Maurice Taylor where Steve's passes resulted in baskets but he didn't get an assist. The other players dribbled the ball first in order to clear more space or get to the hoop.

    However, I won't say that Steve has improved on anything yet. IT's too early in the season for that. I will say that the signs for improvement are there.
     
  3. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,411
    Likes Received:
    9,353
    You'll have to ask me after the losing streak is over. I'm not really in the right frame of mind to answer this question right now...
     
  4. RocketsPimp

    RocketsPimp Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    13,812
    Likes Received:
    194
    As a street baller, yeah, but as an organized, fundamental basketball player, not a chance.
     
  5. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    5,923
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    You've got to be kidding...
     
  6. London'sBurning

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    4,817
    His team game aspect hasn't improved. His defense hasn't improved considering almost every single PG that's gone up against him has burned up and matched him in points and beaten him in productivity. He's been getting burned by the Jazz, Kings, and Sonics guards as of late, and was burned by an over the hill Stoudamire against the Blazers. The guy's defense just plain sucks, and his role as a PG has lessened. He's peaked athletically and has peaked mentally as far as I'm concerned. When you're on your 5th year in a league that's supposed to have coaches who bring out the best in their players and you still don't change then yes, chances are your not going to change til your career is over and done with. He's not even a consistent scorer every night in the sense that he'll be just as streaky as the role players on this team and miss shot after shot for a long period throughout a single game. Yes you can say he's saved this team and hit clutch shots, but think about whether the Rockets should of even been in those situations where we needed a miracle jumper from him if we actually had a PG who knew how to close out a game and lead a team. So no, he hasn't improved.
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    51,803
    Likes Received:
    20,461
    No I'm dead seriuos. I can pick out plays of every game where he shows no improvement. But if I look at his play on the whole then I am serious.
     
  8. JBIIRockets

    JBIIRockets Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2001
    Messages:
    6,358
    Likes Received:
    48
    Whether you want to believe it or not, Steve Francis has actually regressed as a basketball player a little this year. His jumpshot has not been as reliable this year. He is getting burned by rookie point guards. He still turns the ball over way too much. And how many times does he do the cardinal sin of basketball, jumping in the air to pass, 7th graders know not to do this.

    He doesn't seem as quick as he used to used to be, and this is evidenced by the many times he has tried to drive past his defender one-on-one off the dribble, and being unsuccessful in doing so. As a result, he pulls up, shoots a tough 18-20 footer and barely nicks the front of the rim.

    I hate to admit this, and I never thought it could be, but Baron Davis is a better player than Steve.
     
  9. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    8,026
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    i think the reason steve hasn't been playing that well this year. is because he had to change his whole game. i believe he can do this, it just takes time. i think he did develop since he got drafted. give him time this year.
     
  10. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    5,923
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    Another 'give him time' excuse? Lord, how many does this guy deserve? We're going to be saying that when he's a 10 year vet at this rate.
     
  11. Severe Rockets Fan

    Severe Rockets Fan Takin it one stage at a time...

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2001
    Messages:
    5,923
    Likes Received:
    1,490
    Thank you. A good observation from a non-franchise-biased Rocket fan. Steve has learned squat as a point guard in his 4 years. The next time Steve passes the ball to a player in rhythm for the shot(and not as an "I need to score" after thought) will be a small miracle.
     
  12. Rob English

    Rob English Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    457
    Likes Received:
    1
    I must agree with everything you stated. Steve is going into his 5th year in the league, yet continues to get out-played by rookies and veterans alike. Frustrating as heck!!
     
  13. robbarnett

    robbarnett Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    651
    Likes Received:
    0
    :( I'm with you on this one
     
  14. Rockets10

    Rockets10 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2001
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    1
    IMO, Steve has improved little in five years. That is not to say that he won't ever improve, but that he has shown little progress thus far. He still turns the ball over a lot, still takes too many crazt shots, hasn't learned how to play with a post player, gets routinely schooled by opposing point guards, and refuses to take constructive criticism.

    To say that he hasn't improved at all from day one would be foolish. He is obviously better than he was in his first few NBA games. But if you compare his game-play now, leaving statistics aside, to his play at the end of his rookie season, I would say it has changed little. He still makes the same mistakes he always did.

    Just look at how long it takes the Rockets to get into their offense on a possesion. We routinely don't get the ball up the court in a timely fashion and are always playing against the shot clock. This is something that the team has been fighting every year since Steve became the the point guard, so it is not as though someone can claim it is due to the implementation of a new offense or a new coach.

    Another place to look is with the fast break. How many years has everyone been hearing from players and coaches alike that the team should be fast-breaking more? Have we ever seen any improvement in that department? Has it not actually regressed this year? Steve has been incompetent at running it this year and rarely pushes the ball at the right time. This has been a problem that doesnt seem to be getting any better, and Steve is largely responsible as the point guard.

    So, for those of you that suggest that we should give him time to adjust to a new system, if he hasn't changed in five years, what makes you think he will change in a few months? Where do you see improvement coming? (These are serious questions, I am not trying to be sarcastic.) I hope, as a Rockets fan, that I am wrong in my assessment, but I just don't see much meaningful or consistent improvement so far.
     
  15. New Jack

    New Jack Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2000
    Messages:
    2,804
    Likes Received:
    156
    Overall, he’s a better player now than when he first came into the league. However, I think he was a better point guard when he first entered than he is now. I really think those couple of seasons of ISO-ball has stunted his growth and turned him into the player he is now. I can’t help but think if he had been drafted by a team like the Kings or the Jazz, perhaps he would be a different player.

    Those first couple of seasons in the NBA are so crucial to a players career. If they are not taught the right way to play it makes it extremely difficult to change them later on in their career. That’s why I think a lot of players drafted by the Clippers have failed as players. They’re taught how to play losing basketball early in their careers and by the time they finally leave the Clippers, it’s too late for them to change.
     
  16. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    3,703
    Something more people on this message board need to understand.
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    128,982
    Likes Received:
    39,449
    The only thing that has improved in the last 5 years is the team around Steve......

    and that...says a lot !!

    DD
     
  18. Deuce Rings

    Deuce Rings Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Messages:
    4,886
    Likes Received:
    3,703
    A better question is do you think a shooting guard with point guard size can lead a team through the western conference playoffs? I don't. So what purpose does Steve serve other than selling his flashiness to people that respect beautiful basketball more than winning basketball? And I think the kid has heart. I just don't think he's got the size needed to go with that heart to win when it counts. If he wasn't so expensive, I'd love to keep him on, but NEVER as the primary scoring option.
     
  19. sun12

    sun12 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    14

    totally agree. You can also say something about EG. He entered into the league the same year as Zach Randolph and was drafted
    much higher than Randolph. Now Randolph is a star in the making while EG is in a mental hospital.
     
  20. sun12

    sun12 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    14
    Anyway, coaching makes a huge difference.

    That's one thing Rox is lacking. We do not have a deep-pocket owner. We can't spend money on more assistant coaches and trainers.
     

Share This Page