For a long time, I had no idea why David Stern and his cohorts were so intent on an age limit for entering the NBA. But after watching last night's draft, I have to admit that I'm starting to think it's the right idea. While I usually try to tune out most of what ESPN commentators are saying, you couldn't ignore their constant harping on people telling these high school athletes that they would be drafted in the first round and then them not getting drafted at all. I truly believe that a lot of those kids are probably very good players, who just need the practice and maturity that a college athletics atmosphere can give you. But, because of the temptation of millions of dollars and loads of spotlight that the NBA offers, many of these high schoolers seem to have become partially blinded and overconfident in their own abilities. And what's the result? A lot of should-be college kids who can't play in the NCAA because they have now hired agents. If nobody takes a chance on you in the late second round, you're not going to get many looks as an undrafted free agents. I know that there are some of those players who eventually make it--but it's a more difficult road than college athletics and it cheats these players out of a college education, an often-forgotten "by-product" of playing basketball on the collegiate level. I got sick of the draft last night, and that rarely happens. The foreign players are hit-and-miss, but because of needs for size and SOME experience, they will always be present in the draft. But the high school kids are throwing a lot more away and risking all that they might become just for a shot at the NBA. I'm starting to understand this whole thought process a little better now...
I can definitely see the arguments for both sides, but I think this age limit will eventually make the league better. Greg Anthony (whom I've lost a ton of respect for) brought up the crap argument about the rule being racist. Saying these kids don't have the grades for college and that who says they should get an education. What a bunch of crap. The only reason these kids don't have the grades and don't care about education is because they are only thinking NBA and they probably have a lot of dumb people telling them to go NBA. This rule automatically makes these athletes start thinking about college from day 1. They know they have to go to college to keep their stock up. They know they have to have decent grades to get into a good college so I don't see how you can argue against that. As Jay Bilas said, "god forbid they get some education in the mean time."
They can go overseas, to the NBDL, or prep schools instead of college. The race card is uncalled for, considering how many 17 year old foreign guys have been drafted recently. The real reason is, teams kept feeling pressure to take flyers on guys too young to contribute based on the *possiblility* that this *could* turn out to be the next Kobe, KG, Nowitzki, or McGrady. And you end getting embarassing busts like Skita, Kwame, Curry, Diop, EG, DeShawn Stevenson, etc. The whole point is to cut down a little on the bad projections. Also, too many high schoolers have come in with a deplorable work ethic (Milic, Curry, Kwame, etc) partially from their "God's gift" mindset. Good call on the point made, gucci - anyone else notice how many (semi) big names went undrafted? Randolph Morris, Lucas Jr, others? Evan
However, what this appears destined to do is allow better teams to draft 'projects', stash them for two years in Europe or NBDL, and Voila! greater pipeline as those teams retool. The 'big names' who fall thru the cracks get to choose their team and maybe get a better deal?
I think it also help figure out how these high schoolers would do against better talent. There is a big difference between playing against High schoolers and Div I caliber players.
I agree almost word for word. The more I've learned the last couple of years about these shoe company leaches and "agents" that start chatting up kids in junior high, the more I'm sick to my stomach. Some of these youngsters actually think they have a chance at stardom when in reality they won't even sniff the NBA. They are wasting their formative years on something that will not pay them 2 cents in adulthood. They have nothing but a shattered pipedream when the bubble bursts. I was in favor of a 20 age limit, but 19 is better than nothing. Now most kids at least know they must prove themselves at the next level for at least one year before possible riches. And with more non-American players filling up NBA rosters, the outlook is worse than ever. I sure hope parents don't get talked into holding their kids back a year at some point so they will be 19 at the time of the draft.
it wont matter I believe the rule was 19 and a year out of high school. So they can be held back 10 years and be 28 when they graduate, but would not be able to enter the league until a full year has passed since graduation. I think the age wasnt as big factor in the dealings, but the stipulation of at least a year out of high school was huge. Amare was 19 when he graduated and turned 20 by the time the league started, a player like him despite being very old for his grade would have still needed to wait a year. i like this move a lot while some college programs may feel it would be a one and done deal for players i think some players who would have thought of the L before after going to college may decide to stay there more than 2 years. I believe a lot of times its not necessarily the players who want to jump to the league but rather the people around them feeding their heads with unrealistic goals so they can get paid.
I didn't hear what he said, but if he did bring up racism, I personally have GAINED respect for him, FINALLY, some one else speaks up, right or wrong the fact that he stood up is something to look up to. Is he right or wrong? I think there is racism involved. Fact of the matter is that that rule will affect American black players almost exclusively because there has only been ONE American white player to go straight to the NBA from high school. I read somewhere that Europeans will NOT be affected by this rule, they can still get drafted as 18 year olds, and even if it does affect them they are still getting paid to play in Europe so it won't be that big of a deal to them. The European players coming over are mostly white, so, is it racist if it affects one race pretty much exclusively? EDIT: I'm not saying that it IS racist, I'm just saying that their is an argument to be made and you can't lose all respect for anyone who speaks their minds on that issue. We'll never know the truth. What I'm starting to hate about most of the attitudes people bring when discussing an age limit is the attitude that they know what's better for these young players, that they have to stop them from making mistakes as if they have the right to decide what's best for them. Last time I checked we live in a free country that lets us decide what to do with our lives, even if some of the choices we make might be mistakes, so what?! It's their decision to make! Nobody should force you to go to college when it's not at all necessary. This is exactly the type of attitude I'm talking about. College isn't for everyone, and what the hell good does "some" education get you? Will I get a job as an architect because I took "some" classes in architecture? Hell no! Jay Bilas and you are acting as if YOU know what's best for THEM, you have no idea what their situations are or what they want out of life. It was probably the happiest moment of their life when they heard Russ Granik not David Stern call out their names, yet some people want to **** all over them and make it seem as if they made the biggest mistake in their life. Maybe some feel they did, still, it's not for us to judge or decide, they'll live with THEIR decision. I've also made that same mistake at times when I referred to them as "kids" as if I'm old enough to be their parents, but I've also always held my ground that an age limit is STUPID. Another thing that pisses me off, why don't you ever hear someone say, "He should of left school last year"? They always talk about the players who leave school early as if none of them ever stay too long, it's so easy to look right when you only see your side of the story.
Good post Jumpman, while I don't think its racism either, there is no getting around the fact that this rule affects mostly, almost excusively black players. So race is involved. European players have the option to stay in their country anyway and make far better money than the NBDL.
Some people who like the rule are at least well intentioned. They believe they know what is best for the kids or the NBA. The colleges of the USA like the rule because NCAA hoops is huge business and they don't give a rat's ass about what's best for the kids. MLB and the NHL have farm systems that the NBA can emulate and the NBA has the resources to do so. An NBA farm system can be just as effective as college hoops (in terms of prepping you for the pros) if not more, because the college game is different. Not saying you shouldn't go to college. But while many are arguing about the right and wrong reasons for this and that, in the end it's all about greed and money (from all sides) that determines the outcome most of the time. Does anyone believe that the MLB farm system is bad? I don't. If NCAA hoops wasn't so much of a cash cow, the NBA would be the same as MLB in terms of bringing up talent. Some kids would make it through college (depending on affordability, the desire to learn, the desire to have a college experience, parental or peer pressure), some kids would make it through the farm system (the need of money, the desire to enter the real world, the desire not to go to college, parental or peer pressure) and some kids would start off in school and end up in the farm system. The reasons behind not having an NBA farm system are all B.S. It's money and according to David Stern, NBA egos. I swear that I read in an interview with David Stern that I recall him saying that a farm system would need restrictions because we can't have 4th year NBA players being sent down, because that would damage their ego and psyche too much. Arghh. Total B.S. A great farm system would help the NBA and kids out the most. It's the right thing to do and the NBA nor colleges nor Players Association care enough about the kids and the game to do the best thing. They all just care about money.
To answer the question in the last sentence...no it is not racist in this case if something effects one race exclusively. if you want to argue that it is racist then you could argue anything that regulates young american players aspiring to come to the NBA is racist simply because a large percentage of them happen to be black. that is not a valid argument because then you can dismiss almost anything simply because there are a lot of black americans in the NBA or who want to be in the NBA. it's a circular argument. i don't know how you can gain respect for someone who carelessly throws the race card out there. there is no logical argument for racism in this rule. if you want to argue that the NBA has relied on the college system too much to produce their young talent and this rule only perpetuates that problem then that is a valid argument. if you want to argue that this prevents legal adults from working in their desired profession then you could argue that. but you can't argue race here unless you just want to argue that any rule where blacks happen to make up the majority of the demographic that is actually being targeted (high schoolers) as racist. this rule targets high schoolers and attempts to get the NBA out of high schools. this rule does not target black americans simply because they are the majority of the demographic trying to get to get into the NBA straight out of high school.
-ONE white high school player has been drafted. -Everyone else has been black. -I'm pretty sure that European 18 year olds are ok. -Most European players drafted into the NBA are white. Right or wrong, that is a valid argument. Can someone tell me what he said? I watched it, but I basically zoned everyone's voice out except for David Stern and Russ Granik. Respect is gained, because he used his right to free speech, which in reality isn't really free speech at all, since apparently you can only say what you want if it agrees with the majority opinion. His doesn't so he's disrespected and has probably been encouraged to keep his mouth shut, is that REAL free speech? There is a logical argument to be made, and it's simple. This rule affects black players almost exclusively because Robert Swift is the only white player to be drafted out of high school. And the probability that the rule does not affect European players, who are mostly white makes the argument even stronger. Now you make a logical argument as to why it's ok for European basketball players, baseball, hockey, tennis, and soccer players to skip sometimes even high school and not ok for basketball players to skip college completely. Why aren't they forced to go to college? That's the exact argument. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.
They did put in a rule about international players, they must turn 19 by the end of the year that they are drafted. Source And regardless of that international players are different. Scouts have been able to view them against better competition to get a better judgement of their skills, and they've been in an environment where they have had to act responsibly. And the only thing preventing an American going to Europe when they are 15 to play is work permits. If they can get that then I'm sure they could go there and be allowed into the NBA according to their International players rule. Nobody says high schoolers have to go to college, the can play in the NBDL, Europe, or not do anything. They just can't play in the NBA until they've been out of high school for one year. And if the motivation behind the rule was racism why would Billy Hunter and the players union agree to it? Wouldn't they rather have a lockout than support racist rules?
If I could make the NBA after high school, I would want to be able to get drafted. But that's not gonna happen. I think it's better to require guys to go to college.
So it's ok for European 18-1/2 year olds to be drafted, there's still a difference, why? They get the same amount of time to judge them and in the case of some Euro's even less, because they don't play as much as the veterans regardless of talent and because their team's hide them from scouts. They get drafted high at times because of individual workouts alone, you know that! Well, if that stays in the final draft of the deal I would hope that high school players go straight to the NBDL for a year and get drafted out of there, unless they really care about a college education. What was Hunter supposed to do? Speak his mind and win Mike and Mike's "Just shut up" award like Jermaine O'Neal did? I'm telling you man, there's no good in that! You speak up on something like that and people will dismiss it as just another black man playing the race card without even considering the validity of his statement. By doing that he would have lost even more support by the public, which has always been driven against him and the “greedy” players in the first place. Somehow he was able to get them down to a 19 year old age limit, and a loop hole that allows underage players to make themselves some money against better competition, hooray for Billy!
I think the age limit on becoming the President of the United States is racist. After all, every president has been white, so it is obviously an attempt to keep white kids from reaching their dream of being president.
I agree, it's hard to predict talent, especially at such a young age at both the high school and European level. That's why I hoped the age limit would be much higher, maybe 22 years old. That way, those who wish to become an NBA player can play in the NBDL, NCAA, or Euroleague against better players. That way, their strengths and flaws are easier to see. High school players often dominate because their level of competition is not that high. It's a big gamble, and may even end up hurting players because they don't get to grow and develop with their peers. Instead, they may spend a lot of time on the bench because they don't pan out immediately.
EXACTLY! You're obviously catching on. Martian Man... WE DISAGREE! It's here and it's queer so I suppose there's no use arguing about it anymore. Peace out fellas!
Lol. I know. I was pulling your chain. But seriously, age limit is fine with me. If you look at baseball, they have the same system, with players playing in the minors or at college. And look at their player's union, it's the strongest union of all the sports. Players benefit as well as teams. I don't see why so many people are against it.
