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"I'm ashamed of the unit I once commanded"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, May 12, 2004.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A19189-2004May11.html

    Not Just Following Orders
    I'm ashamed of the unit I once commanded.

    By James D. Villa
    Wednesday, May 12, 2004; Page A23


    From 1989 to 1992 I commanded the 372nd MP Company, the Army Reserve unit from Cumberland, Md., that is at the center of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal. In the years since then, I've had an enduring affection for the unit and those who serve in it. Today what I feel is a sort of sickness, and shame at having been affiliated with the 372nd.


    With congressional, military and independent investigations in the offing, there are many things about the incidents at Abu Ghraib that we do not know. Given the involvement of military intelligence issues, there are many critical things that we may never know. But there are a few conclusions we can certainly draw.

    These actions were the result of huge command failures. The senior person charged thus far is Ivan L. Frederick, a staff sergeant. In an MP company, a person of his rank is normally placed in charge of a squad of 11 soldiers. I refuse to believe that no leader above Frederick was aware of or complicit in the abuses that were apparently widespread throughout the prison. While certain officers were relieved of their commands and other leaders were given letters of reprimand, the failure of unit leaders, from company to brigade, is stunning.

    The 372nd has approximately 150 soldiers and is divided into five platoons, four of which consist of MPs. The company commander is directly responsible for all actions taken by his soldiers, or those that they fail to take. The 372nd's commander and the relevant platoon leader either knew or should have known of the actions of their subordinates, as should have their noncommissioned officers. All these leaders failed in their most basic responsibilities of supervising their soldiers in the performance of their duties.

    Brig. Gen. Janis L. Karpinski, commander of the 800th MP Brigade, which ran the prison, has spent most of the past week on television telling the same story: that she never knew about this, that her MPs were working for military intelligence people, that she was not to blame. Had she spent as much time leading her troops as she apparently has preparing for appearances on MSNBC (with her lawyer in tow), the Army might have stemmed these incidents early on. I was taught in ROTC that a leader is responsible for what his or her unit does or fails to do. I was also taught that a leader takes responsibility for his or her soldiers. Either by commission or omission, Karpinski and her chain of command have failed those soldiers in her brigade and, ultimately, this country.

    The soldiers in question are nonetheless culpable for their own actions. The 372nd is a combat support company. That is to say, it is a unit designed to provide area security, law enforcement and battlefield circulation control operations. It is highly mobile and has a significant amount of indigenous firepower. Like all MPs, the soldiers in the 372nd have received basic instruction on handling enemy prisoners of war. The most essential instruction regarding prisoners is the "Five S's": search, segregate, silence, safeguard and speed to the rear. These simple directions clearly state that an MP must ensure that a prisoner is disarmed and, once rendered harmless, protected as a noncombatant and moved back for processing. While serving in Kuwait in the 1991 Gulf War, my soldiers took Iraqi prisoners, and our responsibility was to safely transport them to camps in Saudi Arabia and protect them from vengeful Kuwaitis. This is a basic function of an MP unit on the battlefield.

    Various people, including the families of some of the soldiers in question, have said that the soldiers were not given appropriate training to run a detention facility and had inadequate support to do their jobs. While these statements may be true, in what Army field manual can one locate the section about stacking naked prisoners like cordwood, or affixing collars to their necks? Is special training needed to show a soldier that this sort of thing is contemptible and contrary to any standards of decency?

    Further, it is no defense for MPs to claim that they were only following orders, that they were instructed to "soften up" prisoners to enhance subsequent interrogations. While battlefield intelligence gleaned from interrogations may prove invaluable and can save American lives, no officer, no sergeant, has the authority to direct a soldier to commit an atrocity or to violate the Geneva Conventions. While soldiers in a combat environment may face split-second decisions involving difficult moral choices, such was not the case here. We are confronted with picture after picture, story upon story, detailing systematic abuse and degradation by American MPs. We have a right to expect more from our military.

    Those serving in Iraq, including the many reservists and National Guardsmen, deserve our respect and admiration. The men and women of our military who are serving in Iraq do so under terrible circumstances. They live each day with fear and danger, far from their families, deprived of the basic comforts of life. Their families suffer for their absence every day and each milestone missed -- a child's graduation, an anniversary, a loved one's birthday -- can never be reclaimed.

    To minimize the egregious conduct of some members of the 372nd (and their superiors) dishonors those men and women who honorably serve their country. We must not, as some commentators have said, deem this to be soldiers "blowing off steam" and equate it to a fraternity initiation. To me, that sort of response dishonors those who strive each day to serve their fellow soldiers and complete their missions -- and who risk their lives to do so. A failure to condemn what is wrong is also a failure to recognize what is right -- and what our committed military men and women do around the world each day. Further, minimizing the conduct of these MPs by comparing it to the reckless and violent acts of the Iraqi insurgents is wholly beside the point. We must compare our actions to those of the men and women who have honorably served this country as soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen. We must look to them, and to our own standards of conduct, and not to people who would wantonly kill and terrorize innocents. If our claim is merely that we are better than the terrorists, we leave a tenuous legacy for a budding democracy in Iraq.

    The 372nd has a distinguished record, having been in both the Gulf War and in Bosnia. The soldiers with whom I served were some of the most dedicated and talented military people I know. Though they came from various backgrounds, they shared the common values of service to their country, community and fellow soldiers. I have always been proud to have served with them. The acts committed at Abu Ghraib have disgraced all of us. I hope that corrective action by the Army and appropriate punishment for those guilty will help restore the pride that the 372nd and the MP Corps have earned.

    The writer is an attorney with the federal government in Washington.
     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    When I saw this title, I immediately thought it was John Forbes Kerry coming clean on his military record of war crimes and atrocities, followed by a cowardly retreat back to the homeland at the first possible chance of leaving on a technicality.

    By the way, Batman, when was the last time you posted something positive? thanks.
     
  3. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Nice find, BJ. I agree that it is sad that the entire military is being impugned for the disgraceful actions of a few.
     
  4. kazo

    kazo Member

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    I never post here but t_j you absolutely disgust me and I am ashamed you call yourself an American. Later shill.
     
  5. Pipe

    Pipe Member

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    I thought the opinions expressed in the article, as well as the fact that articles like this get published and discussed in America, are in fact some of the most positive things that come out of negative situations like the abuse of Iraqi prisoners.

    The apparent public relations campaign by General *not my responsibility* Karpinski, provides a stark contrast.
     
  6. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Bolded paragraph speaks volumes. Couldn't have said it better.
     
  7. Jeff Gundy

    Jeff Gundy Member

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    A letter submitted by a friend to the editor at the Washington Post. The paper will probably never publish it, but here it is...


    How Horrified Is The Arab World?

    Has the hypocrisy and transparent corruption in the Arab world become so mundane, so blatant, that we simply don't notice it anymore? Or do we choose to turn a blind eye to it? The headlines read "Torture pictures horrify Arab World," and our government quickly apologizes for the mistreatment of wartime enemy combatants. Was it really horrifying? Not to me. Photographs of the victims of nazi death camps are horrifying. Video of people jumping from the twin towers to escape burning to death horrifies me.

    So, what does horrify the Arab world? Is it torture?

    According to Merriam Webster torture is defined as "the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure." The humiliation, abuse, and psychological pressure used on Iraqi combatants in Abu Gharaib is regrettable and saddening, but it was not torture. At least not torture as it is widely and systematically practiced in the now-horrified Arab world.

    Saddam's dictatorship rested on a foundation of torture. Survivor reports, and innumerable photographs recovered from Saddam's prisons, show a much different picture than those taken at Abu Gharaib. Men beaten to death, their eyes gouged out. Men whose genitals are black from repeated electrocution. Children physically tortured in front of their parents. Men, hands tied behind their backs, left hanging for days. Rape rooms. Burnings. Was the Arab world horrified? I don't remember hearing about it if they were. Maybe the US press could publish some of those photographs so that Americans too can claim horrification.

    How about when an Iraqi mob, chanting Allah-u-Akbar, gleefully murdered, burned and mutilated the bodies of American contractors in Fallujah. Was the Arab world horrified then? The televised images seemed to depict elation not horror.

    How about when Muslim terrorists killed thousands of Americans on September 11? Was the Arab world horrified then? The images I remember are those of Palestinians dancing for joy in the streets of Ramalah.

    It is no secret that torture and patent civil rights abuses are systematically practiced in Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Egypt. For years Amnesty International has documented case after case of such abuses, even sadly the physical torture of children between ages six and fourteen in Saudi Arabia.

    Just how horrified is the Arab world?
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    They shouldn't publish it. Your friend lost all credibility with this passage.

    If you or your friend don't think shoving a phosporescent tube up somebody's ass or having German Shepherds sicced on you while bound & naked qualifies as "intense pain", then you have some strange hobbies.
     
  9. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    In other words, you are choosing to defend these soldiers by saying "their torture was worse than our torture."
     
  10. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Yes and this happened while Saddam was our ally. And it's happening now in other countries who are also our allies. Saudia Arabia, Uzebekistan, Columbia to name a few. Should we be selectively outraged when our enemies commit atrocities? Or should we be morally consistent?

    Let's check ourselves first, before calling out the "Arab world". If we're so horrified, why are we tied at the hip to the Saudis?
     
  11. arno_ed

    arno_ed Member

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    I do not think you are the person to say this. i find it very strange that you stil do not see that the soldiers who did that torture are bad persons. I'm amazed that you can have such a take on the world.

    the thing i think is almost the most scary is the fact that that woman (english) does not think she does anything wrong, because her superiors told her to do it. That is scary. how the world can anybody think that torture is not wrong if your superiors told you to do it. why in the world do some people follow oprders without thinking for yourself. Damn to me that is scary. alot of people died in out history because people follow a leader without thinking:(
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Thanks for clarifying. However, you've leaped to so many erroneous conclusions lately (like Kerry and that guy meeting in Vietnam or Clinton taking folks with him to the 9-11 Commission) that it's no surprise.

    It's now taken for granted that you're wrong.
     
  13. CBrownFanClub

    CBrownFanClub Member

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    Dear Batman Jones:

    I, too, wish you would stop criticizing things. As history has shown us, the surest way to improve a country is to parrot it's leadership. Posing provocative, respectful, reasoned and thoughtful questions is a sign of weakness, fear, and disloyalty. Exploring and taking responsibility for any sort of misdeed on the part of your country is similarly unpatriotic. Also calling people names when they make an compelling argument is good.

    Sincerely,
    People Who Disagree Are Spaghetti Spined Liberals

    PS. Screw stem-cell research.
     

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