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illusion of 'choice' in america

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by txppratt, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    So, what does this have to do with the political process being hopelessly corrupt or whatever?
     
  2. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    the overlap between big business and government - it's always been there... but it appears to be getting more sinister.

    the media is designed to distract us from seeing what's really happening.

    the food example is case and point - american consumers go the grocery store with all these 'options' - come to find out it's really only a couple of companies represented. it's an 'illusion' that america provides all these choices/freedoms. GMO products are designed for longer shelf life - to increase profits, period.

    same in government - we think we have a say - but we really don't - elections follow the money. and the money comes from corporations and private interest. it's another illusion.
     
    #22 txppratt, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  3. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Money, particularly as spent by a few cranky billionaires and multi-illionaires is the exactly the issue. Though well financed lies and propaganda in their media and very importantly in campaign ads they create public opinion

    The Dems and GOP are NOT parties with immutable or rigid principles that a candidate has to play ball with or s/he can't run for office. They respond to the demands of folks who have not "grown up" to the point where they are too cynical to vote and try to organize. Hey I am a democratic socialist, but could register and run as a Republican if I wanted to. I might not get many votes.

    Hence depending at this point whether their districts are are located or gerry mandered sufficiently we see the GOP having radically different politicos in DC. You have the type who believe sincerely it seems that the dinosaurs and Adam and Eve cavorted together and Obama was born in Kenya and might be the anti-Christ. Those who are obsessed with abortion and gay rights and those who are pro-choice and support marriage for gays.

    Another contra example are the Tea Party types who are entering and running against establishment GOP against the wishes of the "Party".
     
  4. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    aren't we basically the united corporations of america?

    <a target="_blank" href="https://imageshack.com/i/nah698j"><img src="http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/838/h698.jpg" border="0"></a>

    when do the people become the focus of government? and not corporate profits $$$?
     
    #24 txppratt, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  5. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    This is what happens when you make money the most important thing.
     
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  6. Andrew Wiggins

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    Damn...
     
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  7. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Ah. So it's an analogy. Okay. But they are different, so I'm still not seeing it. Sure, Mountain Dew, Pepsi, and A&W all are "tied" to Pepsico ( and your nice little image doesn't actually show how they're tied together - it makes sense, after all, for soft drink manufacturers, or candy producers, or cookie manufacturers to have some ties with another if you want to avoid reckless and potentially harmful competition)...but no one would posit that they are the same beverage.

    So, sure Republicans and Democrats have some common business ties. But given the ridiculous partisanship that we have seen in Congress and in politics in general lately, can this not be argued to be a good thing? Does not a democracy need a common ethic if it is to survive and not be who can just muster more people to the ballot box? Sure, perhaps one could argue that it is less democratic - but one thing I've discussed on this forum are how people today seem to think that more democracy always equals better governance, something I don't believe in the slightest.
     
  8. Andrew Wiggins

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    Divide and conquer. Bringing up gay rights makes 99% of men think about something they can never understand. Also brings out the racists (TM case did too). Everyone has their 2 cents regarding abortion, especially women.

    Watching the thunder and the Knicks at the moment, so sorry for any typos on my ipad.
     
  9. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    i totally see your point... what's the solution?

    Kojirou, i do not know for sure, but i believe any solution will involved an informed electorate. our process can work... maybe, if people wake up.

    america is zombified - literally... to what is happening right now. the banks tanked our economy to the benefit of a small few. and everyone is still suffering for it. except those in government and the wealthy elite.

    our nation is run by a private banking cartel - who is NOT run by government agency.
     
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  10. Andrew Wiggins

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Republicans spent 8x more investigating Clinton's sex life than 9/11. Congress spent $75 million of US taxpayer money investigating Barry Bonds' steroids use, but only $12 million and 2 months investigating 9/11. Which one is more important? I don't want to make this thread all about 9/11, but I do want to mention how many were commenting that "Truther" who said investigate 9/11 on the mic during the Superbowl needed to be checked into an insane asylum because it's crazy and not true. Granted most of these comments came from national media websites who also called him crazy, so you can see they are just following what the media says.

    I have given up on these people. They are hopeless individuals who will forever be ignorant and live in denial. You can't reason with them because they are programmed by the same group who perpetrated 9/11 to attack anything that's anti-American. Anyone with half a brain who paid attention during the attacks could see something was up and they were hiding a lot of footage and spreading misinformation (understatement of the year).

    Sorry for the rant, but it's interesting to hear someone else's take on the matter. Just don't try to correct people who didn't ask to be corrected because you're wasting your time.
     
  11. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    WOW! Interesting information

    Rocket River
     
  12. aeolus13

    aeolus13 Contributing Member

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    There's nothing sinister about it. A congressman is elected by the residents of his one little district, not by the country as a whole. As a result of self-sorting, gerrymandering, and simple geographic factors, most of these districts tend to have a large majority of like-minded people, and they tend to elect officials who think the way they do. Most people's only problem with Congress is that the rest of them aren't more like their Congressman.

    If anything, we have too much control over our political process. In this era of Citizens United, Super PACs, lobbyists and donor lists, it's easier than ever for a small group of people to get some their government to do some particular legislative favor for them.
     
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  13. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Are troofers still doing their thing? Dear God, I thought you guys had all moved on to the Obama Kenya thing.

    The solution to what problem?

    I openly acknowledge that America is an imperial power. I openly acknowledge that corporations and lobbyists influence American politics, though I don't think that their influence is as nefarious or large as those who like to tilt at windmills think. I just don't care - and in the case of the former, I think that American hegemony is a good thing. I don't care that two parties dominate the political landscape, I don't care that Americans b**** about Congress like they've always done, I don't care for term limits, etc. Frankly, I'm generally content with the system as it is now.

    Does that mean America is perfect? Gods no. There are real issues, and real political threats. But I don't view the current American system as hopelessly corrupt, or evil, or something like that, and the reality is that rhetoric only makes yourself feel good that you know more than everyone else, but it just makes everyone else think you're nuts and precludes true change. Our media, and the Internet and all that, have puffed up the egos of every individual American, so that we all think that we know the True Way to save this country - but we forget that each one of us is just one person out of over 300 million, less than a drop in a bucket. Never forget that. Never forget that from a political standpoint that you, yourself, are worthless. So am I. So is Deckard, and basso, and Major, and so on and so on. Each one of us is individually worthless.

    You want change then? Start small. Start by focusing on little issues, maybe even local ones. The way I see it? A man who is good to his neighbor, who is good to his community, and to his family, and who acts with honor and duty? That's more change than ten thousand high blown speeches about impending doom.
     
  14. Andrew Wiggins

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    Tbh, calling me a truther is lame. I've done my research, looked at the evidence (or lack thereof) and formed my own opinion. If you think that makes me a "troofer" because my opinion is different than yours then you are just a puppet because that's not even something you came up with. It's just something you've heard or read before and you think it's trendy to use.

    Puppet.
     
  15. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    There are opinions which are different, like the idea that corporations have too much power, that socialism is a good thing, and that America should withdraw from its international commitments.

    And then there are opinions which are utterly loony. Like birthers, young earth creationists, and troofers. But let me ask a question: why? Why did the Powers That Be blow up the WTC? Spell it out.
     
  16. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    "We" should mean votes, and not cash. Gerrymandering is sinister by definition. Congressmen are calling lobbyists from the time they decide to run to the day they leave office and join a lobbying firm/board of directors based on whatever subcommittee they held power. None of this is particularly new, but the amount of cash changing hands is.
     
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  17. Andrew Wiggins

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    Why are you even in this thread? They come around once every blue moon and they don't harm anyone. I already told you I don't care what you believe. No response will change what you think. Your mind is already made up and I'm a loony. I guarantee you you are under 24 and you were too young to think for yourself on 9/11.

    But if you really want to know then think for a second and ask yourself the same questions then draw your own conclusions. Ask yourself does this really make sense? To be honest its really not that hard. But you won't, so quit pretending like there's anything I can post that can change your mind.
     
  18. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Because if I really did think that the American government killed 3000 American civillians in cold blood, I wouldn't shut up. I wouldn't give a crap if people thought I was a loon, I would fight, and fight, and fight. Heck, given that scale of a crime, one might even attempt extrajudicial justice if he really thought the system was so corrupt that even such a crime could go unpunished.

    But no, you can't even give a straight answer, like all conspiracy theorists do. You insinuate, and imply, and thus the idea is implanted in others' heads. But you don't outright state it, because the minute it's outright stated that "yes, the Bush government decided to plan an incredibly risky plan just so that they could blame Saudi hijackers so they could invade Iraq for...some reason", one begins to realize how ridiculous it sounds.
     
  19. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    by no means is this exhaustive:

    to unite our society against a common enemy
    to keep america in fear - to the point we supported unjustified wars (our government makes a **** ton of money on war)
    to basically have our military to destabilize the region in the middle east and get our hands on the resources, set up more bases for our empire
    the patriot act, limiting our freedoms, enhancing the government's power

    in my research i have found many terrorist acts have some link to CIA. almost as if our government wants to keep us in fear of an 'enemy'.
     
  20. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Is what you posted about the govt. being responsible for 9/11 the result of your looking at evidence and research?

    If so perhaps you might want to rethink your method of researching and examining evidence.

    What you posted isn't in any way a credible read of available evidence.
     
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