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Illicit Arms Kept Till Eve of War, an Iraqi Scientist Is Said to Assert

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by johnheath, Apr 21, 2003.

  1. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Wow, the story is unraveling. It looks like the anti-war crowd is going to be very embarrassed as tales of WMD and Al Queda become known.

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    April 21, 2003
    Illicit Arms Kept Till Eve of War, an Iraqi Scientist Is Said to Assert
    By JUDITH MILLER


    WITH THE 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION, south of Baghdad, Iraq, April 20 — A scientist who claims to have worked in Iraq's chemical weapons program for more than a decade has told an American military team that Iraq destroyed chemical weapons and biological warfare equipment only days before the war began, members of the team said.

    They said the scientist led Americans to a supply of material that proved to be the building blocks of illegal weapons, which he claimed to have buried as evidence of Iraq's illicit weapons programs.

    The scientist also told American weapons experts that Iraq had secretly sent unconventional weapons and technology to Syria, starting in the mid-1990's, and that more recently Iraq was cooperating with Al Qaeda, the military officials said.

    The Americans said the scientist told them that President Saddam Hussein's government had destroyed some stockpiles of deadly agents as early as the mid-1990's, transferred others to Syria, and had recently focused its efforts instead on research and development projects that are virtually impervious to detection by international inspectors, and even American forces on the ground combing through Iraq's giant weapons plants.

    An American military team hunting for unconventional weapons in Iraq, the Mobile Exploitation Team Alpha, or MET Alpha, which found the scientist, declined to identify him, saying they feared he might be subject to reprisals. But they said that they considered him credible and that the material unearthed over the last three days at sites to which he led them had proved to be precursors for a toxic agent that is banned by chemical weapons treaties.

    The officials' account of the scientist's assertions and the discovery of the buried material, which they described as the most important discovery to date in the hunt for illegal weapons, supports the Bush administration's charges that Iraq continued to develop those weapons and lied to the United Nations about it. Finding and destroying illegal weapons was a major justification for the war.

    The officials' accounts also provided an explanation for why United States forces had not yet turned up banned weapons in Iraq. The failure to find such weapons has become a political issue in Washington.

    Under the terms of her accreditation to report on the activities of MET Alpha, this reporter was not permitted to interview the scientist or visit his home. Nor was she permitted to write about the discovery of the scientist for three days, and the copy was then submitted for a check by military officials.

    Those officials asked that details of what chemicals were uncovered be deleted. They said they feared that such information could jeopardize the scientist's safety by identifying the part of the weapons program where he worked.

    The MET Alpha team said it reported its findings to Washington after testing the buried material and checking the scientist's identity with experts in the United States. A report was sent to the White House on Friday, experts said.

    Military spokesmen at the Pentagon and at Central Command headquarters in Doha, Qatar, said they could not confirm that an Iraqi chemical weapons scientist was providing American forces with new information.

    The scientist was found by a team headed by Chief Warrant Officer Richard L. Gonzales, the leader of MET Alpha, one of several teams charged with hunting for unconventional weapons throughout Iraq. Departing from his team's assigned mission, Mr. Gonzales and his team of specialists from the Defense Intelligence Agency tracked down the scientist on Thursday through a series of interviews and increasingly frantic site visits.

    While this reporter could not interview the scientist, she was permitted to see him from a distance at the sites where he said that material from the arms program was buried.

    Clad in nondescript clothes and a baseball cap, he pointed to several spots in the sand where he said chemical precursors and other weapons material were buried. This reporter also accompanied MET Alpha on the search for him and was permitted to examine a letter written in Arabic that he slipped to American soldiers offering them information about the program and seeking their protection.

    Military officials said the scientist told them that four days before President Bush gave Mr. Hussein 48 hours to leave Iraq or face war, Iraqi officials set fire to a warehouse where biological weapons research and development was conducted.

    The officials quoted him as saying he had watched several months before the outbreak of the war as Iraqis buried chemical precursors and other sensitive material to conceal and preserve them for future use. The officials said the scientist showed them documents, samples, and other evidence of the program that he claimed to have stolen to prove that the program existed.

    MET Alpha is one of several teams created earlier this year to hunt for unconventional weapons in Iraq. Supported by the 75th Exploitation Task Force, a field artillery brigade based in Fort Sill, Okla., the teams were charged with visiting some 150 top sites that intelligence agencies have identified as suspect.

    But the Pentagon-led teams, which include specialists from several Pentagon agencies, have been hampered by a lack of resources and by geography.

    Because the task force has two expensive, highly sophisticated, transportable labs in which chemical and germ samples can be analyzed quickly, it was kept at a safe distance from fighting at a desert camp in Kuwait, just across the Iraqi border.

    Unable to move their task force closer to Baghdad, where most of the suspect sites and scientists who worked in them are situated, the mobile exploitation teams have had to rely on scarce helicopters to travel to suspect sites in the Baghdad area. Until recently, these were reserved mainly for soldiers going to battle. As a result, most of the teams had done almost no weapons hunting until the fighting had largely concluded.

    Two weeks ago, MET Alpha was finally given a mission of inspecting barrels filled with chemicals that were buried on the outskirts of Al Muhawish, a small town south of Baghdad. A small team with little equipment and virtually no supplies traveled to the town for what was supposed to be a half-day survey. The barrels turned out to contain no chemical weapons agents.

    But during the survey of that site, Maj. Brian Lynch, the chemical officer of the 101st Airborne Division, told MET Alpha members about a report of suspect containers buried in the area that fit the description of mobile labs.

    Other officers mentioned that a man who said he was an Iraqi scientist had given troops a note about Iraq's chemical warfare program. No one had yet followed up the report, they said, because of the fighting and also because similar tips had failed to produce evidence of unconventional weapons.

    The team, with vehicles and supplies from the 101st Airborne Division, went out on its own to survey other sites and pursue the tip about the buried containers and the scientist. After completing a lengthy survey of one installation, Mr. Gonzales and other team members from the Defense Intelligence Agency's Chemical Biological Intelligence Support Team decided to try to find the scientist.

    Mr. Gonzales tracked down the scientist's note, which had never been formally analyzed and was still in a brigade headquarters, along with the scientist's address, military officials said.

    The next morning, MET Alpha weapons experts found the scientist at home, along with some documents from the program and samples he had buried in his backyard and at other sites.

    The scientist has told MET Alpha members that because Iraq's unconventional weapons programs were highly compartmented, he only had firsthand information about the chemical weapons sector in which he worked, team members said.

    But he has given the Americans information about other unconventional weapons activities, they said, as well as information about Iraqi weapons cooperation with Syria, and with terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda. It was not clear how the scientist knew of such a connection.

    The potential of MET Alpha's work is "enormous," said Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, commander of the 101st Airborne Division.

    "What they've discovered," he added, "could prove to be of incalculable value. Though much work must still be done to validate the information MET Alpha has uncovered, if it proves out it will clearly be one of the major discoveries of this operation, and it may be the major discovery."



    Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company |
     
  2. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    An Iraqi government scientist links Saddam to Al Queda and WMD, and the anti-war crowd doesn't want to discuss this topic.

    I am not surprised.
     
  3. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Very interesting article. Hopefully the foreign press will report this and give the US a better image in places like Europe and the Middle East....and other places like San Francisco for that matter...
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Here's more of the evidence everyone has been waiting for...but no, let's talk about whether the US should hold a victory celebration for the victory in Iraq (which is just another thread to bash the US).
     
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    The liberal extremists and other Saddam sympathizers been completely on the wrong side of the issue from day 1. They owe the world an apology. They were completely wrong. They were nice pieces to Saddam's public relations machine, but now they must admit their errors in judgment.
     
  6. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I wonder how much the Iraqis destroyed?
     
  7. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    TJ -- I know you're not much for my touchy-feely posts...but seriously, how good did it feel watching the images of the Iraqis celebrating their liberation?? an amazing day.
     
  8. Woofer

    Woofer Member

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    Well, since you cried wolf about seven times already, I felt any response besides your own response to yourself would just encourage you to keep crying wolf. Maybe you should consider alternatives to your one viewpoint? :) Should we rehash all the times you've been wrong with all those other threads?

    http://slate.msn.com/id/2081774/

    The military hasn't come up with anything truthful yet on this crap, can't even admit the Patriot missile system doesn't work right even in it's second incarnation ( works darn well on planes, it's original purpose, unless you're like the F-16 pilot who fired first.) How about you do what Rumsfeld is doing right for once on this subject - Wait until they get solid data.
     
  9. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Yes, please waste your time and let's rehash.

    Once again, our President and military are lying, and Saddam was telling the truth? You are like a broken record.

    I guess this doesn't matter. I could show you a picture of Osama with a suitcase nuke in downtown Baghdad, and you would find an excuse to dismiss the photo.
     
  10. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Originally posted by johnheath
    Yes, please waste your time and let's rehash.

    Let's rehash your trail of threads detailing what we haven't found? This un-named scientist and that top scientist and no WMD to be found. That is quite impressive.

    I could show you a picture of Osama with a suitcase nuke in downtown Baghdad, and you would find an excuse to dismiss the photo.

    Actually you would post a picture of a tall guy with a beard holding a suitcase full of clothes giving the camera a dirty look and claim it was Osama with a suitcase nuke. Nice...
     
  11. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    Timing, all evidence points to two points.

    1. Iraq never stopped striving for the capability to produce and hide biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons.

    2. Iraq forged some kind of relationship with Al Queda in an effort to hurt the United States.

    Your hatred of Bush has clouded your common sense. Look past your bias and at least see this truth.
     
  12. outlaw

    outlaw Member

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    I still don't get why they would destroy their WMD days before the war began. What would be the point? Wouldn't they use them against us instead?

    john, why not wait for some hard evidence before doing your I-told-you-so dance?
     
  13. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Jorge, I'm not aware of ANYONE EVER "apologizing" for or purporting to believe the statements of Saddam Hussein on this board. EVER. But you just keep saying this ****. And the more you say things like this the more I wonder why I EVER reply to anything you post. I try all the time to have thoughtful debates with you and you come back with complete and utter crap like this. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me a million times, well... I recognize at least that it's my own fault. Either way, whatever my personal feelings toward your ******* posts, I owe no one an apology -- least of all you. There is nothing in this thread or any other which addresses or refutes my reasons for opposing this war. As for my good friend johnheath's attempt to call out the liberals somehow, my silence in this thread was due to the fact that nothing in it had anything to do with my reasons for opposing the war. Nice try, funboys. I'm outta here.
     
  14. Timing

    Timing Member

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    This is the same kind of he said she said secret source insinuation propaganda that this administration has been pushing for over a year and that you've posted on these boards for a month now. The nuclear rods that we lied about, crap evidence that a bin Laden tape proves a connection, the fake nuclear material purchases, the decontamination trucks cleaning areas (weird that we can't find those trucks since they were on satellite), the fake nuke material bust in Turkey, the fake chem loaded missiles we found, the supposed sarin we found, the Iraqi terrorist camps in Kurdish controlled territory (our supposed allies) prove Saddam has ties to Al-Qaeda (ha), and on and on and on. You read an article and come running to these boards saying "see, you anti-war Saddam lovers!". Then after whatever you posted gets shown to be false you get amnesia and pretend you never posted it. Hell just the other day you posted an article here referencing the difficulties for inspectors in finding WMD in Iraq because of their hiding techniques and that it would have taken them months or years and you completely misrepresented it to mean that it would take the US months or years to find WMD even though now we run the whole country. By now you have enough egg on your face to feed Basra for a month.

    And really, all of what evidence? Another scientist's claims? You sure are eager to believe whatever anyone says when it's in Bush's favor but then you get a drastically different set of criteria for judging things when it comes to suspicions of Cheney's links to Halliburton. Because of what this administration has told us and because of Saddam's record I tend to believe he has WMD. I simply want to see the evidence and I want to know if we exaggerated and lied about what we knew (which I seriously suspect now that we can't find a thing) in order to fool Americans and the US Congress into supporting the war. I know you'll support whatever gets floated to you as long as it has a Republican stamp on it but a lot of us like to judge things on the merits.
     
  15. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    The evidence is overwhelming that Iraq was not complying with UN mandates in regards to WMD, and the Al Queda connection is clear based on Czech intelligence and firsthand accounts of defectors.

    Also, it would have made no sense for Saddam to use WMD on U.S. troops. Think about Saddam's goals and options for a minute.

    Saddam could have cooperated with the UN from the beginning, and even Blix said that never happened. Why didn't Saddam cooperate with UN inspectors? I think we all know the answer to that.

    His only goal was to hang on to power through this conflict. France and Russia had already sent signals that they would support coalition forces if WMD were used. Therefore, if Saddam used WMD, his overthrow was certain.

    Saddam's only chance to hold on to power was to bog down U.S. troops is a Vietnam style quagmire (sp?), and hope that a high death count of both Iraqi civilians and Coalition troops forced the world to reevaluate the war.

    Saddam had incredible survival instincts- that is apparent. Using WMD on our troops would have been incredibly stupid and suicidal. Saddam may have been completely amoral, but "stupid and suicidal" does not describe him.
     
  16. johnheath

    johnheath Member

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    LOL! Thanks for the laugh Timing. Christopher Hitchens latest Slate article is waiting for your perusal. Your thinking is oleaginous!
    http://slate.msn.com/id/2081707/
     
  17. cson

    cson Member

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    "
    The Anti-war Crowd- "Sorry we were late.. YEAH WAR!!! WMD!!! YIPPEEE!!! Good thing all those people died!!! WOOO HOOO!!!! I'm So happy W & johnheath were right!!! YEAHHHH!! Let's give 'em blow jobs!!! This makes everything better !!!! I LOVE WAR NOW!!! SHOCK & AWE = CHRISTIANITY!!!! Yay!!! I FEEL SOOOOOOOO SAFE BEcause of war!!!etc, etc "
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    That wasn't very sincere. ;)
     
  19. cson

    cson Member

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    t'wasn't it ?...t'wasn't it?


    ain't i a stinker
     
  20. goophers

    goophers Member

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    John,
    Maybe articles like this would be more liable to generate intelligent discourse if it didn't include snide remarks from you at the start. I supported the war, but I will doubt any unverified claims of Al-Quaeda and Iraq links. Also, I know it must feel great to be the first one to report on discovery of WMD's, but I think it's best to wait until this type of info is verified, or at least has a little more evidence than 'miscellaneous Iraqi scientist'. In time evidence will be found one way or the other, and until that time it's counterproductive to bait people that oppose your viewpoint. It will be interesting to see what this leads to...
     

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