If you were Chicago, would you want O'Neal or Cato?

O'neal and Cato are very similar, so maybe Cato and a 2nd-round pick would do it.

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I would rather keep the Catomic Bomb.

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I think it would depend on if T-Mac would want to play there. ONeal would merely be a ploy to lure him there, as Clutch stated.

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Why not both? According to some people, Portland doesn't want a big man (Fizer), and would prefer Crawford. NIKEstrad just will be happy if Fizer is a Rocket with Cato/Drew becoming and not having to give up anything more than a conditional pick next year for it.

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The more lefties on your team, the better.
Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong?
Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.

 

I would prefer to give them Walt and KT and a add-in (perhaps drew) for FIzer. Than as someone else mentioned, they could get Oneal form POrtland for Crawford if they want. IF I was Chicago I would just keep Crawford though as I think the potential is there for him. If we have to give up Cato for Fizer though, I am not too dissapointed. It hink he can match up with all the great Western Conference PF's out there as good as most (even with the height problem). THat is more than can presently be said of Cato and his defense.

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When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!

 

I honestly think that the Cato and next yr's pick (top 3 protected) is better than the offer of Jermaine O'Neal. Its debatable which player out of O'Neal or Cato would be a better pickup for the Bulls. O'Neal I would agree has more upside and raw/natural talent, but I do not think he can play center long term. He is a PF in this league imho, something the Bulls already have. Kelvin Cato is a very good addition, and the 2001 pick helps them in their re-building efforts.

This deal makes a whole lot of sense both ways. That Bulls fan that proposed it did a good job of this imho. The Rockets taking on Hersey Hawkins salary is like the cherry on the top. The Bulls actually gain a little cap room despite taking on Cato's salary. They add a 5.3 mil salary in Cato but drop a 4.2 mil one in Hawkins. Also, Marcus Fizer's 1.7 mil salary is gone to the Rockets. If he was sitting on the Bulls roster unsigned, he would count for this 1.7 mil against the cap. For trade purposes, though, he counts as zero. The Bulls solve their center position and can then go out and pursue Tracy McGrady, Tim Thomas, Eddie Jones, etc.

For the Rockets, it works out equally as well both in terms of player acquisition and cap situation. The Rockets get the stud PF that they lack and can slide Jason Collier over to the center position. Fizer's position is PF; he is just is not going to flourish as a SF in this league imho which is why I think Chicago should deal him. Since Hakeem Olajuwon is playing his final season, it buys the Rockets some time to find a shot blocker to replace Cato. The names have been mentioned on this board already, Foyle, White, MacCulloch, Miller, etc and in next summer's draft, Johnson, Jones, etc. Plus, Hersey Hawkins becomes a free agent in 2001, the summer the Rockets pursue free agents. Essentially, they wiped Cato's contract off the cap for the most part and got a stud 4 man in Fizer. The next step is to use that boatload of cap room to find a small forward on the 2001 FA market. I just think this deal makes a lot of sense for both sides.

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With the report that Orlando has extended feelers to Cat and this issue of Fizer/Cato, could a contact from Chicago to Cat be next?

Would there be some type of "protection" that Chicago would leave Cat alone if they got a deal on Cato - Fizer?

Where is Mulder when we are discussing conspiracies?

Mango

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I know there was a post about Francis lack of defense, and thus my question is this; If the rockets get rid of Cato (the only person we have who will average more than .5 bpg, dream excluded) then how many points will the opposition score against us as a team? Especially if we start a 6'7PF and then shuffle him with a 6'7PF and let our soft center stand in the middle.. doesn't work for mine! No interior defense will REALLY hurt our team much more than adding yet another dose of offense will help!
We're ok for scoring, so if we want a PF who's going to be a "stud" then at LEAST get one who's tall and can play some defense! Especially if we're going to turf out our best paint defender (I know some people say Cato has much to learn in defense, sure he does, but that doesn't change the fact that he's our best post defender -Dream excluded)


As far as my exclusion of dream in discussions, no disrespect to him, but I believe he has stated he will retire after this year (so he doesn't feature in long term plans)

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DrNuegebauer,

Part of my reason for such interest in Fizer is that he measured out at 6-9, and the undersized label proved to be wrong. If he had measured out at 6-6 or 6-7, I'd be concerned, but he did not. All along, I've felt Fizer has the basketball skills to be a stud at the 4 position, just was not sure about his height. That question got answered. As far as the shot blocking needs, the Rockets can sign someone like Adonal Foyle (1.79 BPG last yr) or wait till next yr's draft and pick up someone like Ken Johnson or Alvin Jones. This also opens the door to deal KT for a small forward. The deal of KT, Walt, Drew for R Rogers and Chapman becomes very doable then.

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Only thing is, Chi-town doesn't want Cato's big salary (yet). Don't think that Tim Floyd wouldn't kill to get his former player back. But for now da Bulls want / need to free up as much space as possible, if they hope to compete with Orlando for free agents.

Face it - Cato is a nice project. And even if he doesn't develop an offensive game, he's far better than anyone they've got in the middle right now. But his contract makes him overpaid, and thus more likely to remain a Rocket.

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I was also worried that Fizer would measure out around 6-6,6-7. At 6-9 though, I don't think he is a liability, but rather an addition. Everyone says that Fizer may be the only true player in the draft who demands a double team. For the exact same reason, he may also be one of th emost polished defenders in the draft in my opinion. No, he doesnt have the raw jumping/blocking ability of Kelvin Cato. But he does add an extremely strong, yet very athletic and court smart PF. While as a rookie he will obvioulsy not be a superstud on defense, I think in the long-run he will be as good, if not better defensively than Cato. If Fizer can play defense like Barkely than we are in for a treat (at 6-6 Barkley amazingly played great-for his size-defense against much bigger and taller PF's and sometimes centers). Fizer should match up well agaisnt the Karl Malone/Brian Grant/Gugliotta types and with grooming will mosst likely learn to play the KG's, Webbers and Wallaces of the world better than most.

MAybe I am extremely overating Fizers defense. I realize he will be only a rookie, but his combination of sheer size and strenght with athleticism is enticing (especially at 6-9) both offensively and DEFENSIVELY. Perhpas someone can post the numbers when Iowa State played good clubs with solid post players. I am pretty sure that FIzer had no problems with Mihm, but I dont know about the others.

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When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!

 

Sam Cassell, your missing something there. The Rockets would take on Hersey Hawkins salary of 4.2 mil in the deal which all but cancels out Cato's contract. Its great for the Rockets also b/c Hawk's salary expires in 2001 when we need it, but the Bulls get his salary off the cap NOW. Add the fact that they are losing Fizer's 1.7 mil salary, and they are in a BETTER position than before. They have Cato, Brand, Artest, Crawford in the fold and could afford Eddie Jones and Tracy McGrady to add to that.

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JayZ brings up an excellent point. Just b/c you are not a big time shot blocker does not make you a bad defender. Marcus Fizer plays smart position defense and uses his bulk and size to move guys out of their comfort zones. This is the way that Brian Grant and Karl Malone play defense as well. Sure neither of them are big shot blockers, but they play excellent position defense and can move players around with their bulk and size.

I am really hoping this deal is being discussed. It makes so much sense for both sides. Its a lot better of an offer than Jermaine O'Neal. This is seeming a lot like last summer in the Steve Francis situation. We kept hearing about packages like Stackhouse/Vaught when the Harrington/Dickerson one just made too much sense on so many different levels. It was well covered up, then all of a sudden at the last minute we find out that Harrington/Dickerson is the one for Francis. This summer, all that is being leaked is Jermaine O'Neal, but anyone that follows basketball closely can tell you that Cato and the 2001 pick is a much much better and more sensible package for the Bulls than just O'Neal. This deal just makes so much sense, it needs to happen.

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Deal doesn't make sense to me. It's makes a bad defensive team a worse defensive team, and it makes a fast and up tempo team go back to the slow throw the ball into the post team + it totally ruins our chances at getting Webber next offseason.

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You ain't gotta like me, you just mad cause I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

New Jack, Cato's shot blocking can be replaced by either signing a shot blocker like Adonal Foyle this summer or waiting till next yr's draft and picking up someone like Ken Johnson. Also, are you saying that Fizer is slow? Have you seen how well he runs the floor, its amazing a guy that big can run the floor that well. As JayZ pointed out, Fizer has a very intriguing mix of athleticism and size. How many 265 pound bangers do you know that can run the floor well, have the footwork and handle the ball with the fluidity of Fizer? The big question mark on Fizer (height) was answered when he measured out at 6-9. That was my one question on him, and he answered it. Fizer would be an excellent pickup for the Rockets, and Cato and the future pick would be excellent for the Bulls. This deal needs to be made.

Also, I would love to have Chris Webber as well, but you cant just pass on a talent like Fizer in hopes that the small chance of getting Webber pays off. Let's say you put all you eggs into the Webber basket by passing on Fizer and come up empty next summer? You would wind up with nothing when the potential ROY was sitting under your nose. The better move would be to get Fizer now, and set your sights for a SF next summer either Michael Finley or that 1 yr maneuver discussed about Rashard Lewis in the other thread. Also, if you so happen to land Webber, Fizer esp after a ROY type season is excellent trade bait. This deal puts you in a better cap situation as you lose Cato's 5.3 mil salary.
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[This message has been edited by MManal (edited July 05, 2000).]

 

Dude,
you must be joking. The Clips are not going to give up Miles for any body (especially for Fizer).

This is a NO GO FOR LAUNCH. Miles is happy to be with the Clippers & with all of the guys (his friends) that the Clippers picked up shortly after drafting him to make his stay more comfortable.

Not to mention the fact that Clipper fans how ever few are left are ecstatic & the franchise finally has some thing to draw on.

Chicago can keep dreaming Miles will not be any thing but a Clipper at least not this year.

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To me it would make sense for the Clips to trade Miles as they have an excess of small forwards(Odom, Maggette, Nesby, Miles) and what they really need is a power forward so Fizer for Miles doesn't seem out of the question at all.

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You ain't gotta like me, you just mad cause I tell it how it is, and you tell it how it might be.

 

Yup, excellent post Slick Willie, that basically puts the Miles thing to rest.

Also, one thing I forgot to mention on the Chris Webber front. I feel a lot worse about the Rockets chances of acquiring Webber than I did before. I have been reading about the Pistons wanting to re-unite Webber and Rose and how Webber would like to go back to the Michigan area. With Grant Hill all but gone to Orlando, the Pistons have an 8.27 mil salary slot to ink Jalen Rose into. Then, along with the 6 mil Christian Laettner frees up in '01, they should be able to package Jerome Williams and Lindsey Hunter for a FA to be in '01. That gives them the necessary cap space to ink Chris Webber. A trio of Webber, Rose and Stackhouse with a steady Mateen Cleaves at the point should bring the Pistons back from the loss of Hill. If what articles have been stating are true, that Webber would like to re-unite with his former Fab 5 teammate back in Detroit, this would provide them that vehicle.

I am a big supporter of the importance of having a stud 4 man on the team. With stories like this popping up, I feel less and less sure about the Rockets getting the big prize in Webber. This is why I am so supportive of getting Marcus Fizer on this team.

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[This message has been edited by MManal (edited July 05, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by MManal (edited July 05, 2000).]