... which I don't think will EVER happen, but say he does go to jail: Are we going to be treated to Jordanless-esque asterick championships once more? I mean Kobe is just 25 and is arguably the best player in the game. I could see it happening to the Rockets again, just as they become contenders this go-around. It didn't seem to matter if Jordan was playing baseball or getting his ass kicked on the court by the likes of Nick Anderson, there was always some excuse.
I doubt it. I think on most of his championships, he was second fiddle to Shaq. I still doubt he could win one on his own. Either way, I guess we will find out next year.
I'll look at it the same way I look at our 2... he will be lucky not to face us. I know the Bulls were lucky back then to have missed us, and it was justified when you look at our record against them and how we matched up. It's just an opinion, and won't stop the media from doing the same damn thing again, Clutch. I hope we get a chance to have that problem. (and I don't count our 1st round series this year. we were so outclassed on paper, and we still might have beat the SOB's with a shot here or there falling.)
Until Kobe does anything without Shaq, I will continue to say his value is overstated. I do not believe his absence would have the same asterisk effect that Jordan's absence did. As far as that goes, I don't know too many people who talk about the non-Jordan years that way. If anything, I've heard the one Spurs ring denigrated for the strike-shortened season.
I think the difference is that there's no guarantee that the Lakers will be back together next year as they are now. Kobe may be on another team, Payton may be gone, Malone may retire, Shaq may demand a trade, or Phil Jackson could go off to Montana and wait for the next superteam to be put together that he can piggyback to a title. Kobe possibly going to jail really has no effect on that. Let's say that the Bulls core broke up in 1994 beyond MJ leaving for baseball. Pippen was a free agent, Grant was traded, etc. I don't believe you'd hear nearly as much talk about the Rockets only winning because of Jordan's retirement. Sure, if the reason Pippen left, Grant was traded, etc. was because of Jordan's retirement, then maybe you'd hear more, but you don't hear people wanting to put astericks next to the Spurs (because of no Jordan, people, incorrectly IMO, want one for the shortened season) or Lakers because there was no Bull team to point to and say "only if you added Jordan". It'll be the same way next year if Kobe's in jail. There's hardly any chance the Lakers will look the same next year whether or not he's incarcerated. People won't have the opportunity to hypothetically add Kobe to the same Lakers' squad as people could with Jordan during our run. By that token, no one's really gonna listen to you if you argue, "man, Phoenix was so close...imagine if Kobe hadn't have been convicted and he signed there".
RM95, I think you're mostly right. But, there were only a couple of roster ingredients to the asterisks of the '90s. As long as Pippen and Phil Jackson remained, people felt justified in it. As long as Shaq and Jackson remain Lakers and Kobe doesn't leave via free agency first, I think any non-Laker champion will be criticized on a no-Kobe basis. All the other guys are interchangeable.
No * Remember, the Lakers haven't won a ring since 2002. People seem to forget that the Lakers ARE NOT THE DEFENDING CHAMPS. It always gets me when I read the "The Lakers' evil empire may finally lose!" They lost last year!
I can see that if that's taken care of before his trial date. However, you do bring up an interesting question about Kobe this off-season. If he opts out, will he possibly sign with a team knowing that he may not be available next year? Will teams be willing to take that chance?
I think another difference is that the Bulls were three-time champs going in to the seasons without Jordan. They appeared unstoppable and there was reason for people to believe they would've remained unstoppable had Jordan remained with the team (especially after they managed to get three more in a row once Jordan returned full-time). The Lakers have been stopped on the court. So even if they win this year and make it four wins in the last five championships, there's still that one that they didn't win, which taints the whole idea, to me, that they're unstoppable except for the loss of Kobe. EDIT: Of course, since it takes me so long to post, someone else made essentially the same point before me. Sorry.
If the Lakers win this year an asterik should appear by their title claiming: *The Lakers added two future HOF players for less money than they're worth in order for the two to win a title which they couldn't do on their other teams even though they had some great players themselves so they had to come and combine and piggy back with two other future HOFs to form the basketball version of Devastator.
*...plus they were 1 shot and a jj turnover from loosing in the first round, a EXTREMLY lucky shot away from loosing in the 2nd round. and MIGHT even loose in the finals
Kobe is nowhere close to MJ, at least now. He is shooting what, 15% behind the arc in 4th quarter this playoff? Very impressive
Exactly. I mean, think what would have happened if the Lakers had the same lineup as last year, this year....? Fish Kobe Fox George Shaq Who thinks they would have gotten past the Spurs, Woves or Pistons? They brought in Malone and Payton so that they *could* get by those teams. So, lets not pump-up Kobe like he more than he really is. Even Shaq would perform worse without Malone and Payton. Their bench would stink if it wasn't for those guys.
BINGO! I mean, if Kobe is sooo great. Then why does he need three HOFers on his team, one of them being the Most Dominating Player (Shaq)? Shaq deserves more credit... Imagine if two years ago Shaq didn't play in the play-offs and the Lakers lost in the 1st round. Then, everyone would be calling for an asterisk if another team won it. "The only reason you won the title is because Shaq was injured." Shaq would deserve an asterisk a hell of a lot more than Kobe.
If Kobe goes to jail, the sports media will just switch from countless segments on "How does The Great One manage to be so great while enduring the hardships of a trial" to countless segments on "How did The Great One manage to be so great while enduring the torment of [insert made-up malady here that caused him to rape]." Of course he won't go to jail. In life, as in sports, the "great ones" get all the calls.
No doubt Kobe has an amazing supporting cast ~ imagine T-Mac or Carter on the Lakers right now in his place. ______________________________________________ Phil Jackson=Megatron? Hmmm...
