the rockets have shown good stuff last few games. I don't know if they're a championship team yet, that's an argument all together... but here are a few collected biased points. this turns into a "trade francis thread" based on them. - yao in his second year has asserted there are currently few centers better. - the high post Yao. it's his offensive strength, it keeps his stamina, it runs the system through his passes (see divac). - jvg and the jvg system are a winning system. - rockets control the pace. even if they get ugly, the opposing team follows them. - jjackson consistency. He ties everything together and keeps the rocks sane with veteran play. occassionally undersized at the SF position. decent contract - moT can hit it. he's the "automatic" guy you want to have some times to keep a lead. - our PF position is a tweener position. You can put cato in there and get his D and hustle, but then you lose hands and offense while teams can afford to pull their PF to double Yao. You can put moT in there, but he isn't as strong. evidence of a successful change is the night Padgett started. - mobley is worth more than his bucks. a needed scorer but his selection is occassionally poor. boki is showing some turnaround. - francis is an allstar who hasn't shown the same maturity as any other all star in the league. Ranks #3 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(143.0) Ranks #4 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.76) Ranks #8 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes(4.58) and is being paid the max. only paul pierce (who carries his team) and lebron james (rookie pg carrying his team) have overall worse TO stats. our defense is great but looking at other great point guards, francis looks like a sieve at times. and here's my bias so, as the final trading month winds down, if i had to make a trade, it'd be francis for a real solid PF and a defensive/passing point guard to fulfill his role. if needed, i'd package mobley to make the deal more appealing with his good contract. i'd then move jim jackson to SG so his size is better utilized and then start MoT at SF. unfortunately, all the teams that have an ideal PG/PF would be unlikely to trade for francis and mobley because they already show more success with them and/or have no need for more guards. tinsley/jermaine, jaric/brand, billups/wallace, arroyo/AK, lebron/boozer?, most (all?) of the winning west teams. it would have to be a threeway or for "less" maybe by finding a gem in the sand. (gooden? chandler? stromile?)
I hear you but I say we just let the year play out and wait and see how they react in the playoff games, thats where the real evaluation sets in. remember the Rockets have that exception to use in the summer so lets just let things play out...and go with what we have. And enjoy.
i been saying it all year steve for a real point and pf. They will probably evaluate the team at the end of the year and if steve dosent change he will probably be traded.
Earlier in the season, I felt that we needed to trade Steve because of all the TO's and lack of passing, but recently, it seems as if he is finally buying into JVG's system. Sure, every now and then, he regresses to his old ways, but I am seeing alot of promise. The TO's don't bother me as much as the opponent's points of TO's do. Our defense is bringing this number down. Last year, we were trying to get rid of Cato, but he has become a solid defender and somewhat reliable short range shooter. And he brings so much intensity, especially on his dunks and alley-oops. I would at least give it to the end of the year. But who knows, I am still high off this latest winning streak.
Try this one out. Houston sends Francis/Padgett to Cleveland. Houston sends Cato/J. Jackson to Indiana. Cleveland sends Boozer/Battie/Eric Williams/this year's top 5 protected #1 pick, which would convert to next year's unprotected #1 pick if they get in the top 5 this year, to Houston. Indiana sends Tinsley/Croshere/conditional #1 pick to Houston. Would Cleveland do it? With a back court of Francis & LeBron, they'd have one of the most exciting tandems in the NBA. Lebron could play the PG & his size would make up for Francis's lack of size on the defensive end. They are currently tied for the 4th spot in the draft with half a season to go. Anything could happen. They also pick up a sweet shooting 3/4 in Padgett to replace Boozer with. Indiana gets a tough defensive minded center in Cato, that'll bring tears to Carlisle's eyes. They also pick up a strong offensive/defensive player in Jackson that will allow them to play Miller less minutes & be a backup for Artest. Houston's been on a role for the last 9 games, winning 7 of 9. But, it's becoming more & more obvious that Yao is the future of this team, & how he goes is how the team goes. Francis is a great player, but he's not a PG & quite frankly, I'd rather keep Mobley instead of Francis (did I just say that? ). Francis's assists per game have dropped every year he's been in the league (6.6, 6.5, 6.4, 6.2, 5.8). True, it's not a significant drop, but with his turnovers (3.97, 3.31, 3.88, 3.69, 3.76) being 3.69 or higher (excluding his 2nd year), it's just a matter of time till he's got a negative A/TO ratio. If we're going to build this team around Yao, then we're going to need a solid PF, a sweet shooting SF, & a good distributor (PG). This trade gives us all of that & picks up a draft pick or two. Some will say that we're getting robbed in this deal because we're not getting a star back in exchange for Francis. I disagree, because I believe that Boozer is an up & coming young star in his own right. This trade gives us a starting PF that can score & rebound, a sweet shooting SF that will force the defense to guard him, which will open the floor up more for Yao, a PG (distributor) in the purest sense of the word, & a solid replacement for Cato as our backup center. Oh yeah, we also get stuck with Croshere. But, if you want Tinsley (& I do), you'll have to take back a bad contract to get Indiana to bite on it. Cleveland's currently tied for the 4th pick in the draft, with half a season to go. So, there's a very good possibility that we'd get their #1 pick this year. If we're able to keep our pick this year & also get Cleveland & Indiana's picks this year, we might be able to package all 3 for a top 5 pick. I wonder if there's another Griffin out there? Anyway, our new lineup would be: C: Yao/Battie PF: Boozer/Taylor/Croshere/Weatherspoon(IL) SF: Williams/Nachbar/A.Griffin SG: Mobley/Piatkowski PG: Tinsley/M.Jackson/Wilks(IL) Add your #1 pick(s) to the appropriate spots on the roster & that's not a bad team. P.S. I'd even explore the possibility of trading Nachbar & the lower of our's & Cleveland's #1 picks to Memphis for Battier. Now that would be a solid team.
Even if you're right, I think we'd be much better served waiting. If we traded Francis right now, while he's still BYC, we'd have to send the trade exception to make his contract "normal". Then in the summer, when we need another piece, we'd have no assets. However, if we wait till this summer, his BYC status expires, we can trade him normally, we'll still have the 7M trade exception to acquire another player, and the flexibility to use the 4.5M MLE because we wouldn't have recieved more contracts for Francis than we should.
It's going to take me all year of Francis playing well (i.e. - smart) to say maybe he shouldn't be traded. Currently, all I can think of sometimes is how good a team we'd be with a Steve Nash or Jason Kidd running the show. Take the last 7 to 9 games, but have 5 games in a row over 100 points (possible). Hottoddie - Your trade scenario is interesting, but I think we give up too much and get back too little, especially given as is we wouldn't even get Cleveland's pick this year and, with that pick and another offseason to mature and tinker, Cleveland could see significant improvement next year. If someone comes to the Rockets with a great offer for Steve - say Orlando realizes they can't keep TMac in the future and are looking for a star player in return...or the Nets want to part with Kidd who in an apparent down year for him has better numbers in nearly every category than Steve (slighlty more turnovers - 0.10 - but certainly more opportunity for turnover in that system). Other than that, Sane is probably right in saying that it's better to wait till the offseason. But you can't fall into the "we finally made the playoffs, let's give it another year" trap if you truly beleive a change is necessary.
Stop the season...the Rockets have beat the Timberwolves...I'm going to go jump off a building or something, surely the world is coming to an end.
Why does a move have to be made? You just gave us a long solution to a problem which apparently does not exist. Reason #4,129,624 why I wish there was a fantasy trades board.
This team is starting to "get it" as evidenced by their winning 7 of their last 9 games. 6 of those wins were blowouts and there were 5 different leading scorers respectively (Yao, Stevie, Cat, JJ, MoT). Yeah, let's break up the team now... Don't forget to rate this thread, people...
Apparently winning 5 or 6 games in a short time frame equates to championship, especially if you have a bunch of different scorers While Hottodie's trade is not an in-season type of thing, if there is a TMac or JKidd opportunity, you have look at it.
If it's not coming to an end it's damn close.... We just beat a team that had the best record over the last month or so in the blessed West and has the MVP playing like a 7 foot Magic Kareem Abdul Oscar Jordan. Hell, they even beat the frickin' Spurs - owners of everyone's athlete of the millenium.... down by the River! As Topic'ed elsewhere, we finally have an offense it seems and the defense is even better because the offense is pressuring the other team to score - they know they aren't getting 100 on the Rockets and we have been actually averaging close to that. I think the other squads realise it's not easy to play "ketchup" against us.... Of course consider all trades.... but continue to improve what ya got from within.
Yeah, and impatiently trading away your foundation over and over again has worked so well for teams like the Suns (Nash, Cassell, Kidd, and now Marbury). These moves sure have paid dividends for them. It makes for great team chemistry.
Yes, the Rockets who missed the playoffs because of the Suns shouldn't go in that direction. Since the Rockets have made the playoffs 0 times in the past 4 years, and the Suns 3, let's keep doing what WE'RE doing. Pure luck that we have Yao and we're locked for the playoffs, otherwise we'd be absolutely screwed. I'm not FOR trading Steve Francis right now, as mentioned, but would definitely consider all trade scenarios this summer. This team can work with Steve at the point, but it would be so much easier without. Why not save the headache? Give me Antonio Daniels + Rashard Lewis this summer, I'll take it and run. Daniels regularly fed Tim Duncan in the post, and his asst/to ratio is stunning. As for Rashard, he's a Houston product, he'll bring in extra fans, and he'll be the perfect compliment to Yao.
Obviously if the right deal comes along that will make us better, we do it. That's a given. I just don't see the point of constantly talking about it when: -There is no imminent deal on the table. -The team is playing it's best basketball of the year. -If the season ended today, we would be in the playoffs as the 6 seed. -There is no imminent deal on the table. This is our team. Deal with it.
Exactly. And it is possible to trade and improve. The Nets did it. The Kings did almost the exact thing (had Webber and Williams, thought Williams was too out of control, traded for Bibby).
Did you have the same opinion 5 games ago? Still, this win streak has nothin to do with Francis. During this 5 game win streak, he's STILL averaging less than 2:1 asst/to ratio, and still has lapses guarding his man. Don't tell me you didn't see him ignore the whole team and go one on one with Sam. I believe Seattle would make that deal btw. I don't think they'd say no to a Ray Allen + Steve Francis backcourt. You're probably going to give me the "if he's that good, why are we trading him" comment, so let me reply to that in advance. First of all, that thinking would mean that no one would ever trade (think about it for a second). Second of all, the reasons the Sonics would do it is because Allen is more capable of playing the role of PG than Cat. The guy racks up the assists with relative ease, no secret tehre.
