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If a Homeless Person Said This, We'd Call Him Crazy...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Rocketman95, Jul 17, 2004.

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  1. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    "I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job."

    http://lancasteronline.com/pages/news/local/4/7564

    Bush quietly meets with Amish here; they offer their prayers
    By Jack Brubaker
    Lancaster New Era

    Published: Jul 16, 2004 12:53 PM EST

    LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - President Bush met privately with a group of Old Order Amish during his visit to Lancaster County last Friday. He discussed their farms and their hats and his religion. He asked them to vote for him in November.

    The Amish told the president that not all members of the church vote but they would pray for him.

    Bush had tears in his eyes when he replied. He said the president needs their prayers. He also said that having a strong belief in God is the only way he can do his job.

    This story has not been reported before. You might think an observant press follows the president everywhere, especially during a re-election campaign, but no reporter attended this meeting.

    Sam Stoltzfus, an Old Order historian and writer who lives in Gordonville, spoke with a number of people present at the session with the president.

    He related what happened to the Scribbler, saying the Amish “caught Bush’s heart.’’

    The 20-minute meeting with Bush occurred immediately after the president addressed a select audience at Lapp Electric Service in Smoketown Friday afternoon.

    An Amish woman who lives on a farm across Witmer Road from Lapp Electric that morning had presented a quilt to the president with a card thanking him for his leadership of the country.

    Bush said he would like to talk to the quilter and her family.

    So the Secret Service invited the family to meet the president. Friends wanted to come along, and the entire assembly eventually numbered about 60. They were evenly divided between adults and children of all ages.

    The group walked together across the road to Lapp Electric.

    Stoltzfus reports: “It took a while to get them through the metal detectors as these were farmers and shop men, with vice grips, pocket knives, and nuts and bolts in their pockets. Some ladies had baby gear. All pockets had to be emptied.’’

    When the Amish were “found not to be a serious threat to national security,’’ they were allowed inside the office area of Lapp Electric and waited about 30 minutes for the president to appear.

    “Babies got restless. Children squirmed,’’ Stoltzfus reports. “Suddenly the president and five Secret Service men stepped into the room. One housewife said, ‘Are you George Bush?’’’

    The president replied in the affirmative and shook hands all around, asking the names of all. He especially thanked the “quilt frau,’’ who operates her own business selling quilts and crafts.

    “He seemed relaxed and just like an old neighbor,’’ says Stoltzfus.

    Bush said he had never met any Amish before and was curious about why the men were wearing straw hats rather than black wool hats. The Amish explained that they wear cooler straw in summer. Bush tried on a hat.

    The president commented on the appearance of Amish farms, and an Amish man spoke apologetically about how he and his friends were not expecting to see the president and were wearing soiled work clothes. Bush said he did not mind that.

    Another man remarked that he has twin daughters, as does Bush. The man said one of his twins had dreamed the night before that she was shaking hands with the president and now she actually had done that.

    “One of the young girls wanted to give Bush a whoopie pie cookie,’’ Stoltzfus says. “Bush declined it. The Secret Service man took it, as presidents aren’t supposed to eat untested food.’’

    At the end of the session, Bush reportedly told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’

    As the president left the room, one Amish man wished him good luck in November.

    “The Amish group headed back to their farms and shops,’’ reports Stoltzfus. “Mothers took their children home for a nap and went back to their sewing and gardens.’’

    Bush moved along to an appearance in York County, leaving behind a group of Old Order admirers who have tales to tell for the rest of their lives.
     
    #1 Rocketman95, Jul 17, 2004
  2. Oski2005

    Oski2005 Member

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    Speaks through him? So he's an insturment of God.
     
    #2 Oski2005, Jul 17, 2004
  3. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    More like a tool.
     
    #3 MR. MEOWGI, Jul 17, 2004
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Even though some people think it is wildly popular (or even somehow intellectually superior) to bash religion, it would be nice if we didn't create a hostile environment for those who are religious.
     
    #4 El_Conquistador, Jul 17, 2004
  5. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    I am a fervent practitioner of the same religion that Bush says he is practices. Trashing Bush for claiming that God speaks through him, is in no way bashing religion.

    In fact having heard Bush speak, I can say that no perfect diety id speaking through him. Whatever is speaking through him, is confused, has trouble putting the right words together and can't seem to get his message across. :D
     
    #5 FranchiseBlade, Jul 17, 2004
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    It will be interesting to see if those of you who castigate Bush would apply the same 'crazy' label to all those Muslim clerics who make similar statements. I do. Do you?
     
    #6 HayesStreet, Jul 17, 2004
  7. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I do.
     
    #7 Rocketman95, Jul 17, 2004
  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    It depends on the Muslim Cleric and what they've said and in what context. A cleric or pastor is to some degree by profession might be someone that God would speak through.

    There are certainly a number of Muslim clerics that I believe are not the being vessels for God to speak through. They certainly are crazy.
     
    #8 FranchiseBlade, Jul 17, 2004
  9. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    Maybe he meant "to me" and it just didn't come out right?
     
    #9 AroundTheWorld, Jul 17, 2004
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    :) Church<----------------:confused:--------------->State :)
     
    #10 KingCheetah, Jul 17, 2004
  11. ron413

    ron413 Member

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    "If you are person of faith, I think it adds weight to that issue of whether you are a good person."
     
    #11 ron413, Jul 17, 2004
  12. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Trader Jorge,

    I believe in god and I believe that I should try and contemplate what I understand to be God's will.

    That is not what's being argued here. Perhaps you should look into the history in Europe of the concept of "The divine right of Kings". To believe that God is actively directing your thoughts creates a situation that, in practice, appears very similar to extreme hubris.

    Imagine, for instance, that you have, some sort of unfortunate natural dislike of Hispanic people. Someone who strives to be a pious Christian, but doesn't believe they are directed by god would at some point while striving to understand the word of God would realize that their predjuice comes into conflict with the will of God presented in the Bible and would strive to change their attitudes.

    For the man who is being directed by God they instead act on their dislike without contemplation. After all, if God's directing me, and I hate Hispanics, then God is directing me to hate Hispanics, and I am therefore directed to act on God's hate. Furthermore, any natural doubt that might arise down the line would be ignored, because we've already come to understand that god doesn't like Hispanic people.

    A wonderful example of the danger of this sort of thing is well demonstrated in the film "The Name of the Rose." The character of William of Baskerville understands that he should use the mind to solve a series of murders, whereas the inquisitor Bernardo Gui feels that his hunches are divinely inspired, and therefore has no problem killing people the he distrusts, because that distrust is the way that God is alerting him to Satan's work.
     
    #12 Ottomaton, Jul 17, 2004
  13. ron413

    ron413 Member

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    #13 ron413, Jul 17, 2004
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Actually, what concerns me about statements like this is that no matter what facts you present to Bush, he will always use the, "I believe in God" argument, which is his trump card in every debate.
     
    #14 pgabriel, Jul 17, 2004
  15. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Even though some people think it is wildly popular (or even somehow intellectually superior) to bash religion, it would be nice if we didn't create a hostile environment for those who are religious.

    as long as that religion is Christianity? IOW Muslims don't count and it is OK to hate them.

    Of course if you meant this in its most literal sense, which religion would not matter. Unfortunately, the religious right are not that open minded.
     
    #15 No Worries, Jul 17, 2004
  16. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    what is IOW?
     
    #16 HayesStreet, Jul 17, 2004
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    In other words, HayesStreet.
     
    #17 Deckard, Jul 17, 2004
  18. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    ah......thanks Deckard.
     
    #18 HayesStreet, Jul 17, 2004
  19. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    If he meant that God speaks through him in a literal way, then he is crazy. But I can see this being in an "action speaks louder than words" kind of way -- example. If Bush was merely saying, "I try to live in such a way that God's message comes through in my actions," then I can't see what the big deal is (regardless of whether or not you believe his life is a living example of God's will at work). The statmement may have been poorly worded (I wouldn't have said it like that) and/or taken out of its context. I somehow doubt it was meant in a literal sense. Yet I also doubt any of this matters to people who are only concerned about cheap shots. So carry on.
     
    #19 TraJ, Jul 17, 2004
  20. lnghrn4life

    lnghrn4life Member

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    Alright come on guys thats enough, I as a Christian believes that God uses me and speaks through me sometimes, not like in a transe or anything but like if i teach Sunday School or a Bible Study i believe that God will use my words to hopefluuy touch someone else, i do not have a problem with Bush saying this(although i guess i do have some bias), i believe that as Christians God has a purpose and uses situations to make us who we are, so i do not have a problem with his faith, as i am sure it is a strong part of his life... I am not voting for Bush in the fall however, i am also not voting for Kerry or Nader... just because i dont really trust any of these three with leading the country in the right direction... so guys chill out and be aware of all types of people when u post
     
    #20 lnghrn4life, Jul 17, 2004
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