Although Jason Giambi had a great season and you could definitely make a case for him, I don't have a problem with Ichiro being named the AL MVP. However, I have a feeling that this is a decision that will not sit well with some people. Seattle outfielder second rookie to win award -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Associated Press Voting results Top 10 finishers in the AL MVP voting, on a 14-9-8-7, etc. basis: Players 1st 2nd 3rd Total Suzuki, Sea. 11 10 3 289 Giambi, Oak. 8 11 7 281 Boone, Sea. 7 4 8 259 R. Alomar, Cle. 2 2 2 165 Gonzalez, Cle. -- -- 3 156 A. Rodriguez, Tex. -- 1 2 141 Thome, Cle. -- -- 2 107 Clemens, NYY -- -- -- 67 Ramirez, Bos. -- -- -- 50 Jeter, NYY -- -- -- 42 NEW YORK -- Seattle's Ichiro Suzuki became only the second rookie to win a Most Valuable Player Award, narrowly beating Jason Giambi for the American League honor Tuesday. Suzuki, who came to the major leagues after nine seasons in Japan's Pacific League, received 11 first-place votes and 289 points in balloting by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Giambi, last year's AL MVP, got eight first-place votes and 281 points. It was the tightest MVP race since Juan Gonzalez defeated Alex Rodriguez 290-287 for the 1996 AL award and tied for the 10th-narrowest victory margin since MVP awards began in 1931. The only other rookie to win the MVP was Boston's Fred Lynn in 1975. "I'm very pleased for Ichiro," said Seattle's Lou Piniella, who was honored as AL Manager of the Year last week. "It's a well-deserved reward for the season he had. He did a great job for our team both at the top of the order and in the outfield." Last week, Suzuki received 27 of 28 first-place votes in balloting for AL Rookie of the Year. The 28-year-old, who won three MVP awards in Japan's Pacific League -- where he was a seven-time batting champion -- from 1994-96, said he was a "little embarrassed" to win Rookie honors after being presented with that award last week. However, he made no apologies for winning the MVP. "It is a great honor to win this award, especially when so many players had such great years, including my teammate Bret Boone," Suzuki said through an interpreter. Suzuki, the first rookie to win a batting title since Tony Oliva in 1964, led the major leagues with a .350 average and 56 stolen bases. His 242 hits were a rookie record and the most for anyone since Bill Terry's 254 for the 1930 New York Giants. Giambi batted .342 with 38 homers and 120 RBIs for the Oakland Athletics, then became a free agent after the World Series. He is expected to be one of the most sought-after free agents, and the New York Yankees intend to aggressively court him. Seattle second baseman Bret Boone, who hit .331 with 37 homers and 141 RBIs, was third in the balloting with seven first-place votes and 259 points, followed by Cleveland second baseman Roberto Alomar (165), Gonzalez (156) and Rodriguez (141). Seattle paid the Orix Blue Wave $13,125,000 after the 2000 season for the rights to Suzuki, then gave him a three-year contract that guaranteed him $14,088,000. Suzuki, who got a $75,000 bonus for winning the rookie award, gets a $150,000 bonus for the MVP. Giambi gets $75,000 for finishing second, Alomar $100,000 for fourth, Gonzalez $100,000 for fifth and Rodriguez $50,000 for sixth. By finishing seventh, Cleveland's Jim Thome increased his 2002 base salary from $7.8 million to $8 million. ESPN.com analysis Upon hearing the news that Ichiro was named MVP, a fair number of analysts probably said, "Huh?" But it's not as strange as it might seem. True, Ichiro's on-base and slugging percentages were nothing special; his OPS (on-base plus slugging) ranked just 26th in the American League, and 300-some points behind Jason Giambi, who led the league in both categories. Aside from OPS, however, Ichiro's got a big lead over Giambi in everything (except perhaps the amorphous "clubhouse leadership"). Ichiro's a great baserunner and stole 56 bases; Giambi's a plodder, and stole two. Ichiro grounded into three double plays; Giambi grounded into 17 double plays. Ichiro's a fantastic defensive right fielder; Giambi's merely adequate at first base. Ichiro plays in a park that's friendly to pitchers; Giambi also plays in a ballpark that's friendly to pitchers, but not to quite the same degree. Ichiro batted .449 with runners in scoring position; Giambi batted .354 with runners in scoring position. All of which is to say that while I would have voted for Giambi, one certainly can make a solid case for Ichiro Suzuki as the American League's Most Valuable Player. He is a worthy choice. -- Rob Neyer
It sits well with me, Manny. W/out Ichiro, the M's wouldn't have been nearly as good this season. You can definitely say the same for Giambi (well, you probably wouldn't say that w/out Giambi the M's wouldn't have been nearly as good, but you know what I mean) and I wouldn't have been upset if he won it, but Ichiro's the man!
This is just another case of the media disrespecting the new york yankees. Look at the year Jeter had now are going to tell me that Ichiro is better than Jeter. . . I actually heard a yankees fan say this
All Giambi does is hit HRs, play bad defense, and jog around the bases. If I was building a team, I'd take Ichiro over Giambi, no questions asked. Ichiro makes things happen with his speed. Besides the stolen bases, think about all the extra bases he gets from 1st to 3rd, or all the times you could waive him home when a player like Giambi would have be stopped at 3rd. He makes you not need the HRs to win games. Whether or not you believe in "clutch" hitting, his numbers with people on were phenomenal last year -- and it wasn't a small sample size, either. He consistently performed when most needed -- batting well over 0.400 in close & late situations, with runners on, bases loaded, etc. Who knows if that was "luck" or "ability", but last year, he definitely deserved the award.
Ichiro - .350 avg, .381 OBP, .838 OPS, 30 BB, 53 K, 34 2B, 8 HR Giambi - .342 avg, .477 OBP, 1.137 OPS, 129 BB, 83 K, 47 2B, 38 HR Giambi hit for only 8 points of average less than Ichiro, and with a buttload more power. Sure, Ichiro stole bases, but that only created 56 more bases, and hitting doubles and homers is better than stealing a base, because it moves the runners in front of the batter better. Oh, and hitting close and late? Giambi hit .397...almost .400 like Ichiro With runners in scoring position? .354 Bad defense? Giambi comitted 11 errors this season. Not great, but not terrible, or even bad. He had a .992 fielding percentage, identical to Bagwell (a good defensive 1B) and 3 points less than Grace (an excellent defensive 1B). The difference in OPS alone was enough to convince me. Many stat gurus consider that to be one of the best, if not the best judgement of a players offensive production.
Ichiro: No one on: BA - 0.313, OBP - 0.335, SLG - 0.403 (454 AB) Runners On: BA - 0.420, OBP - 0.464, SLG - 0.559 (238 AB) Scoring Position: BA - 0.449, OBP - 0.509, SLG - 0.544 (136 AB) Giambi's numbers were pretty good too, but this is the exact type of hitter teams dream of. He seemingly came through when the team needed him the most. I'm willing to bet that if you replaced him with another player with his base statistics (slg/obp/avg), the Mariners don't win nearly as many games. In that respect, I think his stats only show a portion of his contributions. They can't show the pressure he put on opposing pitchers. They can't show how many times he went from 1st to 3rd where other players couldn't, or how many times he scored where other players would have been held up or thrown out. He just made an impact on games like very few other players, in my opinion. <B>Giambi comitted 11 errors this season. Not great, but not terrible, or even bad. He had a .992 fielding percentage, identical to Bagwell (a good defensive 1B) and 3 points less than Grace (an excellent defensive 1B). </B> Fielding percentage is a horrible measure of defensive ability. A slow player who can't get to any balls but catches everything he gets to will have a 1.000 fielding percentage. Here's a pretty good (in my opinion) description of Giambi's fielding from ESPN: <I>In this era of home runs and high-octane offense, however, Giambi also personifies some other aspects of the game: lack of foot speed and lack of defensive ability. I know some analysts talked about Giambi's improved defense this year, but anyone who watched the AL playoffs witnessed Giambi's lack of mobility on groundballs. He is not, in my opinion, even an average defensive first baseman. And he runs like he's carrying that elephant on his back instead of wearing it as a patch on his uniform.</I> <B>The difference in OPS alone was enough to convince me. Many stat gurus consider that to be one of the best, if not the best judgement of a players offensive production.</B> I think you can make a definite argument that Giambi was the better overall player in terms of his hitting. Personally, I value baserunning, speed & defense very highly (probably moreso than most people), and I think being an outstanding RFer and very fast trumps being a mediocre 1st baseman and very slow.
Ichiro wasn't even the best player on his own team. Giambi should've won, his numbers were clear and away better than Ichiro's. Perhaps, but it most definetly does <b>not</b> trump a 300 point edge in OPS.
I think one thing that really helped Ichiro in winning over Giambi was hype. Don't get me wrong; I don't think that he is overrated, but when all your games are broadcast in Japan & when there are cash prizes to have a picture of yourself taken nude then clearly there is some mania going on. This is just a theory, but I feel that in a close race for something like this that a media darling like Ichiro would have an advantage over a Jason Giambi. Is it right? No, it's not. However, I could think of worse MVP votings like when Pedro Martinez lost to Pudge a couple of years ago because a couple of "sportswriters" felt that you couldn't give the MVP award to a pitcher.
If you were to go with which player impacted their team the most by the way of winning and individual performance, Giambi would receive my vote over Ichiro. Now if you threw out wins than A-Rod would make a solid mvp candidate.
What about the 116 wins in the regular season? That probably had something to do with it. Stackhouse averaged 30 points last year, but Iverson won MVP, for the exact same reason.
Brett Boone. He was a much better MVP candidate than Ichiro. There are a number of reasons that the Mariners won 116 games, Boone and Martinez having good years(in Boone's case, a fluke of a season), good starting pitching, a deadly bullpen, and a little bit of luck. He, however, was not nearly as good an MVP candidate as Jason Giambi, who had the best season in the AL this year. That he didn't win this year is a terrible reflection on the voters. Oh - and Stackhouse to Iverson is a bad analogy. Any basketball to baseball analogies are flawed because of the differing dynamics of the game, and the impact of one player is greater in the NBA, but I'll give it a shot. A more appropriate analogy would be David Robinson to Shaquille O'Neal. Did David Robinson deserve the MVP? He was a good player, but he wasn't even the best player on his team, and though he did do somethings well, he wasn't as near as dominant as a better candidate.
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17229&highlight=ichiro I have to say that I thought Giambi should have won the award but I can't stop laughing about all the stuff Haven has said about Ichiro and how defense, speed, and intangibles don't matter. LOL I guess he's the best, slightly better than average, most over-hyped player ever to win MVP and ROY in the same season now huh Haven?
From ESPN: Mariners record: 31-32 when Ichiro did not score a run. 85-14 when Ichiro scored a run. Snippet from ESPN's Page 2: <I>The Mariners didn't have a leadoff man entering this season, then Ichiro had one of the greatest seasons of any leadoff man in baseball history -- for a team that won as many games (116) in the regular season as any team in history. His 242 hits were the most since 1930: his 36-hit lead over the runner-up (Boone) was the largest gap in history. He won the batting title (.350) and led the league in stolen bases (56), the first player to do that since Jackie Robinson in 1949. He became the first AL player since 1922 to hit .350 with 50 steals in the same season. He had three 15-game hitting streaks, the first to do that since Cecil Cooper in 1980. He hit safely in 135 games, tying a major-league record. He tied Joe DiMaggio (1939) for the quickest (61 games) to get his first 100 hits in the major leagues. Put it all together -- runs, steals, hits, average, etc. -- only two similar players matched Ichiro's season: Ty Cobb (1911) and George Sisler (1922). And there was more. Ichiro batted .445 with runners in scoring position. Since the Elias Sports Bureau began tracking that statistic 20 years ago, only three players have ever had a higher such average in one season: George Brett, Tony Gwynn and Paul Molitor. Ichiro won a Gold Glove in right field. He won games with defense and with his arm, which can't be said for all MVP candidates. A veteran scout, who spent 10 days following the Mariners in May, said afterwards, "That team is great and will get better because of one reason: the right fielder. Period." </I> Nothing that Giambi did was earth-shaking. It's stuff that one or two players do every season. Ichiro did things that haven'tbeen done in years. To say that voters were stupid for picking Ichiro is just silly. Was there a case for Giambi? Absolutely. Was he the only reasonable winner? Hell no.
Except that having a high batting average, for a leadoff man, is not all that much more important than having a high OBP, since there aren't many people on base when you come to bat. Not having at least a .400 OBP excludes him from having had one of the best seasons as a leadoff man in history, in my opinion. This writers main reasons as to this claim all pertain to Ichiro's hits and stolen bases. Well, the hits were nice, but there is a reason he got that many hits, and it is that he swung at any and everything. Only 30 or so walks is not very good, and it is the reason his OBP is not close to that of actual "best leadoff seasons." As a side note, just because Ichiro did something that hasn't been done in a while doesn't mean he automatically gets the award over Giambi. Lance Berkman was the first switch hitter to get over 50 doubles and over 30 homers. Does this mean he is suddenly better than another player who didn't have a "first", but still was an overall better producer offensively? Ichiro's batting average with runners in scoring position is great, but the fact that he only had 69 RBIs tells you that he didn't have NEARLY as many RBI opportunities as Giambi, and therefore had a much smaller sample size to get that .450 average.
I'm bored, a fun comparison. Batting Average/On-Base Percentage/Sluggin percentage/OPS Player A - 350/381/457/838 Player B - 342/477/660/1.137 Player C - 336/415/541/956 Player D - 331/372/578/950 Player E - 306/423/543/966 Player F - 292/382/456/838 Note : Bigger numbers are better. Note 2 : Three of the players are on the same team. Player F is a National Leaguer. I threw him in there just for kicks. So, of the first 5, who is the MVP?
<B>Except that having a high batting average, for a leadoff man, is not all that much more important than having a high OBP, since there aren't many people on base when you come to bat. </B> Ichiro came to bat 238 times with runners on (454 times without). That's more than 1 out of 3 at-bats with runners on. I'd say it was pretty important. Remember, the AL has the DH so the bottom of the order is not quite the crap level of the NL. <B>So, of the first 5, who is the MVP?</B> Well, if you only have those three stats, probably player B. If Player E stole 500 bases, maybe him. If Player D was the best defensive player in baseball history and threw out 200 base runners, maybe him. If Player A had 500 RBI's, he'd have a pretty good case too. Fortunately, we're blessed with more than 3 stats when deciding on an MVP.
