Cleveland trades: PG Andre Miller (16.9 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 10.7 apg in 36.5 minutes) C Chris Mihm (8.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 25.0 minutes) (1) nonprotected first round draft pick Cleveland receives: PF Kenny Thomas (14.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.0 minutes) PG Steve Francis (21.9 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 6.6 apg in 40.7 minutes) Change in team outlook (Cleveland): +10.4 ppg, +3.7 rpg, and -2.5 apg. Change in team outlook (Houston): -10.4 ppg, -3.7 rpg, and +2.5 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Cleveland and Houston being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Cleveland and Houston had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i'd do it. and here's why it works for both teams: cleveland has to know that andre miller might bolt out of there after his contract is up (2003). the only reason he DIDN'T make the allstar team this year is because he plays in cleveland (a small market city). it's not the record (francis made it as a starter in houston). but andre miller is, without question, at least the second best point guard in the entire nba. in exchange for giving that up, cleveland gains stevie franchise - a marketing machine so far that would give the city of cleveland some much needed media attention. kenny thomas would be their starting power forward for the next 10 years. can cleveland resign stevie franchise? well, IMO, they have about as much chance resigning him as they do andre mller. in fact, they may have a better chance, seeing as how andre has already experienced the lackluster of cleveland. but, even if you believe steve &/or andre would bolt, at least they get kenny thomas - a potential 20-10 man in the east. as is, they just may lose miller for squat. why would houston do it? first of all, it gives houston a true point guard that lives to push the ball. andre miller is the second coming of jason kidd...no kidding. put him in the backcourt with cat mobley and cat's points probaby go up by 6. that puts him at 27ppg. andre's pionts, i believe, would go up as well, being surrounded by a better, young, supporting cast. chris mihm, at the very least, would give houston a bonafied back up center to the newly resurgent kelvin cato. can we resign andre miller? hell yes. he's already been quoted that all that matters to him is winning. well, IMO, he has a better chance of doing that in houston, given cat's ability, griff's ability, motay's return, cato's resurgence, etc. and, without a doubt, his marketability would rise in houston. hell, he'd be an allstar next year. so would anyone else do it?
why i wouldnt do it A) steve is a superstar talent, miller is merely a solid pg-i don't trade superstars, sorry B) I'm a longhorn so I like chris mihm, but kt is at his level, just smaller So in essence its miller for francis-that straight up does not fly, sorry-andre will help a good team get over the hump, steve will be the catalyst for his(the superstar-solid player rule) now francis for miller and mihm that would be a different story Also, you are jumping the gun too fast this season, way too fast-this team is nowhere near this bad. It just happened we are having a season similar to that of the astros in 2000. I will bet next year, with eddies maturation, a healthy steve and a return of MO, we will be in the playoffs and on our way up. Also, consider this, we were 2-19 without steve, miller is not a score first kinda guard, he would not make this team better in fact it would likely be worse-because our offense is in essence dependent on a big time scoring guard(in our case stevie). So there are my reasons.
DVauthrin, don't forget the lotto pick we get from them this year... i'll respond to the rest of your post in a sec...
Did you even watch the Rockets without Francis? That team was lost out there. Steve does almost everything you could want. He can draw double teams, fouls, shoot, and lately has made some shots down the stretch of close games. He's the team's leader, their identity, everything. We actually need more consistent scoring, and getting a "pass first" PG like Miller is going to hurt the cause, not help it. I really doubt you see Cat's scoring go up to 27 ppg either. Both Steve and Cat are as good as they are now because of how they work together, and how defenses have to be prepared for both of them. When you isolate one without the other, the defense can collapse on them, and who all is going to make you pay? Mo Taylor and Eddie Griffin will be good on offense, but hardly number one options to open up lanes for Cuttino. Andre Miller can make a few midrange jumpers, but he's not a top option. Kenny Thomas is better than Mihm also. Steve's got the tools to be one of the most special players in the next decade. There isn't much he can't do, and he has the heart of a lion. Why on earth anyone on a losing team would want to trade one of the lone bright spots away boggles my mind.
As of right now, their lotto pick is around the 8-9 range, isn't it? The last two years that pick has generated such potent NBA superstars as Desagana Diop and Joel Pryzbilla.
verse, its time to stop looking at young unproven draft talent and I'm sorry you do not trade superstar for solid anyday of the week, esp if you are putting your hopes on how a rookie develops-do we WANT TO BE LIKE THE KRAUSE RUN BULLS. I know you meant well, but look at the trade in the mirror Have you seen us without francis-we went 2-19, meaning we need him to score(a ivy, marbury type player) Miller is not that kind of guard, he is a john stockton, terrell brandon kind of player and would hurt us in the long run because we need a player like steve to setup our offense. I like andre, for mobley sure, for stevie franchise straight up, no way in hell. Unless, however, the new fad in the NBA is Let's Imitate Jerry Krause!
Uh...you just edited your post and added that pick to try and keep the original proposal from looking as bad as it did at the same time that DV finished his first post. So how was DV supposed to remember the lotto pick that wasn't even there when he first replied?
Hold it, Mr. my ego is too fragile to let me lose an argument I believe you added that pick to try and give yourself credibility. Nice job, resorting to 5 year old debating tactics. I mean it really shows what kind of person, you are, if you really can't stand to hear a trade proposal flat out sucks, and I feel sorry for you. Even with the pick, i wouldnt do it, we already want to trade our own, we don't need any more talented projects. I'm all for trading our lotto pick for odom anyway. Don't get me wrong an amare stoudamire would be nice, but I'm not willing to put my franchise in the hands of two rookies-griffin and amare. Unless like I said earlier, It's let's imitate Jerry Krause time in the NBA! You don't win with solid players, you win with superstar players. Steve=superstar, miller=solid Thus, if i ever considered this trade, it would take much more than a pick which would be a potential superstar or a potential bust, because why do that when I already have a budding young superstar at one of the key positions already.
You give Rockets fans a bad name, as far as objectivity goes. If you think 28 other NBA teams would rather have KT than Mihm, you are nuts.
PF Kenny Thomas (14.2 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 2.0 apg in 35.0 minutes) C Chris Mihm (8.8 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 0.4 apg in 25.0 minutes) Explain that, Mr. objectivity. I don't care if Mihm is four inches taller, a good power forward is better than an average center. If Mihm were capable of putting up numbers comparable to Kenny's, don't you think he'd be playing more on a weak Cavaliers team?
It's funny you say Miller is merely a solid point guard and then you compare him to a Hall of Famer. I'd love to have Miller but trading Steve is probably not an option unless he refuses to sign an extension.
SteveFrancis3 i edited my post at 5:36...DV posted at 5:36. now why would you ASSume that i edited mine second? and how could i read his and edit mine that quickly? i guess it's possible, but you're really reaching... now do you have anything to contribute?
Considering the makeup of our current team, would you rather have Steve right now or Stockton in his prime? Stockton, like Miller, was a great point guard, but he's not what we need in this offense.
