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I see England, I see France

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    hmmm, i thought dubya had trashed our international reputation...

    http://www.nysun.com/article/66369

    [rquoter]Britain, France Argue Which Is Closest U.S. Ally

    BY NICHOLAS WAPSHOTT - Staff Reporter of the Sun
    November 13, 2007

    Not to be outdone by President Sarkozy's amorous overture to President Bush in Washington, Prime Minister Brown of Britain has used the first major foreign policy speech of his premiership to insist that Britain is America's closest ally.

    After decades of Anglo-French rivalry, in which France has vehemently deplored the global influence America and Britain have attained and what every president of France since Charles de Gaulle has described as "Anglo-Saxon culture," Mr. Sarkozy claimed during his visit to Washington last week that France, not Britain, is now America's best friend and partner.

    Mr. Brown, who has been portrayed on both sides of the Atlantic as having distanced himself from America to avoid the charge against his predecessor, Tony Blair, that he was Mr. Bush's "poodle," fought back last night, claiming in a speech at a banquet thrown by the lord mayor of the city of London that the French president's bid to usurp Britain's traditional place alongside America would not succeed.

    "It is no secret that I am a lifelong admirer of America," Mr. Brown said. And, in a thinly veiled reference to France's traditional dislike of America and its culture, he added, "I have no truck with anti-Americanism in Britain or elsewhere in Europe, and I believe that our ties with America — founded on values we share — constitute our most important bilateral relationship."

    He welcomed France's late conversion to the American cause and a similar newfound affection for America expressed by Chancellor Merkel of Germany in her visit to Mr. Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas, over the weekend.

    "It is good for Britain, Europe and the wider world that today France and Germany and the E.U. are building stronger relationships with America," Mr. Brown said. But he emphasized that it is with America, not Europe, that Britain maintains its "most important" relationship.

    "The strength of our relationship with America is incredibly important to the future of the world," Mr. Brown said in an accompanying television interview with Sky News. "If we're going to rebuild the international institutions as I think we should be doing, to meet the challenges of the next stage, then we want to work with America to enable us to do so."

    Mr. Brown's comments will come as a slap to a former U.N. official, Mark Malloch-Brown, now a British foreign minister, who declared shortly after his appointment that since Mr. Brown's arrival in Downing Street, America and Britain were no longer "joined at the hip."

    The maverick Lord Malloch-Brown, who has angered many members of the Bush administration with anti-American statements, was instantly reprimanded by the British foreign secretary, David Miliband, and has since found himself obliged to apologize for suggesting that Britain should start negotiating with the Islamist terrorist groups Hezbollah and Hamas.

    Along with a furor in the British press over the free living accommodation provided for him by the British government, Lord Malloch-Brown's days in Mr. Brown's government appear to be numbered.

    Mr. Brown also used his Mansion House speech to express his backing for America's robust opposition to Iran's nuclear weapons ambitions, saying the mullahs in Tehran must choose between "confrontation" and a "transformed relationship with the world."

    "Iran should be in no doubt about our seriousness of purpose," he said. "We will lead in seeking tougher sanctions both at the U.N. and in the European Union, including on oil and gas investment and the financial sector," he said, unless the Tehran regime conforms to international demands to halt uranium enrichment and allow inspectors to inspect nuclear facilities.

    The prime minister was at pains to point out that he would not be soft on those countries that threaten peace.

    "My approach is hard-headed internationalism," he said. "Internationalist because global challenges need global solutions and nations must cooperate across borders, often with hard-headed intervention, to give expression to our shared interests and shared values. And hard-headed because we will not shirk from the difficult long-term decisions and because only through reform of our international rules and institutions will we achieve concrete, on-the-ground results."

    Following his own advice, Mr. Brown demanded that martial law in Pakistan be ended without delay and democracy be reinstated. "We call on President Musharraf of Pakistan to restore the Constitution and implement the necessary conditions to guarantee free and fair elections on schedule in January," he said.

    He also proposed broadening the membership of organizations like the United Nations, the Group of Eight, the International Monetary Fund, and the World Bank to make the bodies more purposeful. The U.N. Security Council should be changed to make it "more representative, more credible, and more effective," he said.

    "We cannot any longer escape the consequences of our interdependence," he said. "The old distinction between 'over there' and 'over here' does not make sense of this interdependent world. There is no longer an 'over there' of terrorism, failed states, poverty, forced migration, and environmental degradation, and an 'over here' that is insulated or immune."

    In the light of the conflicts in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere, where dictatorial regimes degraded a nation's institutions, Mr. Brown advocated the forming of an international "standby civilian force," including police and judges, to "rebuild civic societies."[/rquoter]
     
  2. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    It may have something to do with the fact Bush is a roast duck president who is almost irrelevant.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    You thought right. Western Europeans aren't the ones people are concerned about...
     
  4. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  5. basso

    basso Member
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    and yet, folks are fighting over who likes us the most...
     
  6. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I think basso's turning into a Francophile right before our eyes. Who woulda thunk it?
     
  7. Major Malcontent

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    I enjoy Basso's attempts to find something/ANYTHING good to say about the Cheneyburton administration.

    Every Muslim on the face of the earth hates our guts. We are stuck in a quagmire of an elective war with absolutely no end in sight.

    The Constitution has pretty much been reduced to the Second Amendment....We have secret prisons, export prisoners for torture without anything resembling due process. Our alleged leader can't get through a simple press conference without sounding like a petulant child in desperate need of a nap.

    But hey, England and France don't hate us! Woo hoo!

    U-S-A!!! U-S-A!!!
     
  8. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    All through the Prague Spring, Alexander Dubček talked about what a good friend the Czech people were to the Soviets and how they remained committed to the COMINTERN. Unfortunately, the proclamations of the nation's leader (who even meant what he had said) had little to do with reality, and within several months Brezhnev had sent in the Soviet Army.

    Irrespective of what politicians say when they are trying to flatter your country for personal gain, the peoples of France and England overwhelmingly retain an immense antipathy for the policies of the United States under George Bush. If it has changed, it has only intensified.

    Do you really think these statements are indicative of anything substantial? Honestly? Do you believe that this shows the gratitude and admiration that the world showers on the USA for invading Iraq? If so, this really strikes me as grasping at straws, and from where I’m sitting it makes you look desperate in your attempt to achieve self-validation. If not and it is a ham-handed attempt at propagandizing… well, I think that speaks volumes for itself.
     
  9. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    basso, in light of previous comments made your new-found love of all things french reeks of flip-floppery? what makes you think they are so great now? frankly, im surprised you are so enthused about french support now, based on the way you used to feel about them. a simple search can bring up all kinds of slanderous comments made by you against the french.

    so you no longer feel this way? is it only b/c their new president is trying to be friendly w/ bush?

    i always found it sad yet funny that there was so much hatred directed towards france simply b/c they didnt want to go along w/ the war in iraq, which has proven to be a big lie-based pile of crap.

    freedom fries, anyone?
     
  10. danny317

    danny317 Member

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    its the new direction of the republican party. flip while the floppin is good. :D
     
  11. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    AMERICA. **** YEAH.
     
  12. kpsta

    kpsta Member

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    Don't forget Poland!
     
  13. subtomic

    subtomic Member

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    In my last year of college, a friend of mine started hanging out with two girls who were roommates. These girls were friends, but they were also super competitive with one another. Whether it was grades, fashion or guys, one was always trying to beat the other. Apparently, they had been this way with each other for years.

    In any case, my friend started out as just a casual acquaintance of the two girls and would hang out with them in group settings. There was no romantic/sexual chemistry whatsoever. However, when he and one of the girls went out to dinner by themselves one night, the other girl decided she was interested in my friend and she started calling him more often. Not to be outdone, the first girl also started calling my friend. Things kept escalating to the point where both girls each told other persons that they were going to nail my friend at an upcoming party. My friend ended up missing the party, which probably avoided a nasty catfight.

    A month later, the 2nd girl moved out. After that, both girls stopped calling my friend.

    Never underestimate the things people will do in order to one-up a rival.
     

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