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I know this is going to sound like more Rafer scapegoating...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SuperMarioBro, Jan 22, 2008.

  1. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    ... But after watching the Rockets these last few seasons, and especially the last four games, I am becoming firmly convinced that Rafer Alston is the root cause of our fourth quarter chokes. Not the sole reason, but the root cause.

    The guy fools us every once in a while by hitting a big shot late in a close game (usually a wide open three, on his third attempt of the quarter), but he is absolute balls in the crunch. I can't count how many 1-on-3 DOA fastbreaks he hardheadedly decides to try to complete by himself with an ill-advised jumpshot, or how many turnovers he has on handoffs to McGrady or post-ups to Yao late in the game, or just passes in general. Sometimes even off of the dribble, which is supposed to be his specialty (I will never forget that pivotal turnover he had to Deron Williams late in game seven last year when he tried to cross him up). To boot, he doesn't seem to pick up his defense enough in the 4th quarter when opposing PGs become much more aggressive, especially on the break.

    He is the guy who - this season more than ever - initiates the offense and probably spends the most time with the ball in his hands. Consequently, I truly believe that a lot of his suckitude is contagious with some of our roleplayers. Rafer's biggest selling point is supposed to be that he is a "pure" PG and a playmaker. He is neither. So I think we need to try to close out a tight game with Brooks in the 4th Q. At least give it a shot, and see what happens. Even Francis showed more leadership and intelligence in that one game against Phoenix than I have EVER seen from Alston.

    I got my hopes up during that 7-9 game stretch where he didn't suck, but in the back of my mind, I knew it would be short-lived. And even then, the only reason he was playing better is because, for whatever reason, he was making a lot of the exact same shots he is taking and missing now. He wasn't really playing any smarter.
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    When your thread title starts with "I know this is....."


    Chances are, it's a crappy topic that's been discussed to death and is not worth starting a thread for.

    As for Rafer being the root cause... so you are saying the 04/05 Rockets never collapsed?
     
  3. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Well then I guess my thread defeats the odds.

    If you disagree, feel free to piss off. You will not be missed. :cool:


    Relative to the teams of the last two seasons, no. Bob Sura, Jon Barry, and Mike James were big time. Yes, I know we didn't get any farther, but that team had some gutsy fourth quarter performances. They even had a couple of them in the playoffs. It wasn't until recently that our record without the lead heading into the 4th becamee so disgusting...
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    My instincts are to agree with you. We've played poorly in the fourth quarter on offense for pretty much the last 5 games ... and Rafer has been the PG during all those dry spells.

    I've been advocating that Brooks play more in place of Luther Head against the smaller teams. We haven't seen enough of him at PG to really judge. I know that if you look at all the minutes where Brooks and Yao have been on the court together, we're a -14 in 73 minutes when Rafer isn't also playing, and a +10 in 53 minutes when Rafer is playing.

    If you like, I can take a look at what our point differential has been in fourth quarters over the last couple seasons, with and without Rafer on the court. It could be interesting.
     
  5. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    i blame jvg
    :D
     
  6. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    The 4th quarter problems start and end with teams doubling up on Yao to keep him from getting the ball. And if he does get it, he gets it very far away from his comfort zones. When this happens, the guys have been so insistent on getting the ball to Yao, that it screws up the flow of the offense. That could be role players going into a shell, it could be a coaching decision, it could also be that the "shooters" on the team in the 4th have been missing almost every open look the offense generates for them.(and yes, there have been many open looks)
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Maybe they should put more scorers on the floor and not rely as much on Yao's post up game?
     
  8. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    I agree that the inability to get Yao the ball has a lot to do with it. I know it was HUGE against Philly, and it caused some problems in other games, too, but for the most part, they were able to get Yao a touch at least once every couple posessions in the other games, even in the low block.

    The problem was if they couldn't get the ball in, then one of two things would happen: they would try to force it in (turnover), or they would be completely lost on where to go now (McGrady's return has mitigated this problem). A lot of the blame for the latter option should fall on Rafer's shoulders. Other guys deserve some blame, too, but I believe Rafer is culprit number one for boning us with a bricked jumper, blown drive, or turnover on a pass when we can't get the ball to Yao.
     
  9. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    82games.com has a "clutch play" stat, which relates both how an individual and a team performs when he's on the floor with 5 minutes or less left in the 4th qt and neither team is up by more than 5 points.

    The Rockets have been terrible in "clutch play" time this season with Rafer-- and with pretty much everyone else. However, last season the Rockets did fairly well with him (and with everyone else)-- I believe they scored 115 points per 100 possession and gave up 113 during such times. Clutch play, as defined under such criteria, have been much more of an issue this season that last.

    It's the same Rafer, and the stats are much different. It would appear that something other than Rafer Alston is the cause of the drop off this season.
    Feel free to not post opinions based on your general impression without examining the evidence. You will not be missed.
     
  10. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    Like that T-Mac guy.

    And having Scola in there instead of Hayes.

    But really, late in games you're gonna have Yao. You gotta have Rafer.(hopefully Brooks will start doing better and at least give the option of someone other than Rafer) You gotta have Battier. That leaves the 2 and the 4, and I think T-Mac and Scola are head and shoulders above Head/Bonzi and Hayes. I like Hayes for an end game defender like they did against San Antonio though...


    With T-Mac on the floor, you dont lose to Philly in the 4th. And you very well could have held on against New Orleans....
     
  11. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Well, admittedly, this is based more on observations than anything else, but I think it is too small of a sample for stats to really be worth that much yet.

    But regardless, my personal observations on something like this is really all I can use in this argument. I am not saying that Rafer is the only guy doing anything wrong in the crunch; I am saying that I get a strong impression that his mistakes are more costly than others because of the position he plays and the amount of time he controls the ball. I feel like it rubs off on people more when he plays poorly. So I don't think +/- stats will help very much in proving or disproving that unless we DO do something like bench Alston for the entire 4th quarter. Anyways, I don't think anyone would deny that Rafer has the lowest bball IQ of anyone in our regular starting lineup... maybe even anyone in our entire regular rotation. That's why the mistakes he makes seem so amplified in the 4th quarter. Stupid plays hurt more than just regular failed plays.

    I don't think stats can do a lot for me here, but maybe people who have watched these games (are you one of these people?) can share with me their thoughts on whether they agree or disagree with my assessment.
     
  12. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Agree about T-Mac, obviously. Scola has been the one used late in the fourth quarter in the last 5 games, if I'm not mistaken. He hasn't produced much offensively in that time.
     
  13. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    You "gotta have" Yao and Rafer, but you DON'T "gotta have" T-Mac? Wow... I have no idea how McGrady doesn't make your "gotta have" list for the 4th quarter while Rafer does. I mean, sure, this team has more depth than we've had in the past, but damn...

    Also, I think the collapse against Philly was much worse than the collapse against NO. If we could prevent the Philly collapse with McGrady, then we could definitely do it against NO.
     
  14. pasox2

    pasox2 Member
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    Completely agree.

    Rafer is a guy that brings everyone down.


    Put Rafer on the Spurs, and they are losers.
     
  15. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    He hasn't produced much at all in the last couple games, not just the 4th quarter.

    He has been sort of on-again-off-again all season for us, though... I think he will get more and more consistent as the season wears on.
     
  16. Rowdie Brandon

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    when in doubt...blame tmac..........at least thats what I do.......but yeah Rafer isn't a "sure" thing down the stretch either...at times he appears to be jumpy with his handling down the stretch, and like always he's good for a bad shot or two..................
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Man, I keep saying last 5 games in this thread. I meant last 4.
     
  18. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    I was speaking of the last few games where T-Mac has been out.

    Obviously if T-Mac is healthy, you gotta have him. I think the fact that the Hornets are such a solid team and it doesnt appear as easy as the one vs Philly. In other words, I think it would have taken much less to prevent the Philly loss since we were so far ahead.
     
  19. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Member

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    Right, but thing with Scola is, as his shots have been missing, his defense has been rising. No reason to think that when his finds his shot again his defense will revert.

    slumping Scola > Hayes on offense, and with Scola's improved D lately, its starting to be less and less of a tradeoff Offense for Defense.
     
  20. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Hayes is still a significantly better defender than Scola.

    In fact, I would still say he is easily the best 1-on-1 defender on the team.
     

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