"I killed 2 Americans...Now I just want to kill more and more."

Im sure as hell glad I'm not out there... Its clear they want us to leave, but then again many would feel like they were shafted.

 

Yep, it's deffinetly not a nice position to be in.

 

you guys might think im crazy but i think this thing could turn to out to be much worse then vietnam.

che would be smiling in his grave right now i would think.

 

well lets see...didnt over a million people die in vietnam? how much worse can iraq get?

 

Sad as hell and really ironic a Bush supporter would post it. This is exactly what so many of us were worried about given the unprecedentedly arrogant foreign policy of this administration. No one should be surprised by this and everyone should be furious at the Bush administration for doing every single possible thing they could do to make America more hated than ever before, directly after 9/11 made us more sympathetic than ever before. I mean, we have never enjoyed such an incredible sense of community with the world as we did after the attacks and we have never been so incredibly hated around the world as we are now. It wasn't easy -- it took a lot of work to be considered by most civilized countries to be the greatest threat to world peace. But Bush pulled it off. We need a new president so bad.

 

We should just surround the oil fields and tell them as soon as they get their country sorted out we will hold the oil for them.



DD

 

The folks in Iraq didn't carry out the 9/11 attacks. The people in Al-Qaeda did hate us and that's why 9/11 happened. The people in Iraq hadn't previously been motivated to kill Americans. Now we have new groups of people willing to kill us that weren't willing to do so before

And if you think that attacking countries that weren't involved in attacking the U.S.(Bush's plan) is the answer I think we are in for a lot of trouble.

 

Regardless of whether they were great or not before, they weren't killing us. Now they are.

I never advocated being a nice guy and carrying their books for them while walking them home from school.

The danger is that people who wouldn't have been radical American haters before may now do so.

 

I thought that about 56,000 Americans died in 'Nam.

 

I think that if you actually listen and look at facts and evidence that you will find that it is other people who tend to have blinders on, most notably the people in the Bush administration.

9/11 was done by Al Qaeda, not Iraq. Our action in Iraq is going to create far more terrorists than we will kill while we are there.

You need to look at Kerry's plan again. He wants to fund the crap out of the intelligence services and when we identify actual terrorists, take them out with covert operations. Part of his plan is to involve the UN in Iraq, but I would hardly call involving the UN "kissing the UN's ass."

 

Actually some of them may have been. Iraqis had businesses schools, jobs, etc. like any other country.

Liberating someone from a dictator doesn't give rise to terrorism, but occupying their lands, conrolling their greatest national resource, torturing their population, holding up to 90% of the people in prison that aren't a threat to the occupying army, gunning down civilians at a wedding, not allowing them to control their own oil etc. might breed some hatred toward the country and move some people toward radicalism that wouldn't have otherwise gone in that direction.

 

I didn't know liberating a country from evil would do that.

If you do it the wrong way, then of course it will do that. When weddings are getting shot at, innocent prisoners (70% of the people we arrest are by mistake, according to our own military) are getting tortured, bombs are going off in their streets, it probably doesn't feel like they've been liberated. It's just that instead of Saddam running things, the U.S. is the new dictator. So yes, screwing up the post-war period is going to create more terrorists.

What were these guys doing before, studying to be architects, nurses and doctors?

Yes, they were. From the article:

<I>But most of those fighting the Americans this weekend were local. Some were educated and from well-off families.

Many of them have joined the uprising in the last two months, revolted by what they see as American arrogance, brutality and callousness.
</I>

 

"Liberating" would be one thing, but fabricating evidence to start a preemptive war over the objections of the vast majority of the world, occupying that country, and then abusing the prisoners we take in the action is something entirely different.

Iraq was one of the few places in the Middle East where Al Qaeda did not operate or recruit as Saddam was in control of the country, with the exception of the no-fly zones in the North and South.

Our actions in the Iraq will not capture the hearts and minds of the people in the middle east with anywhere near the draw that we had during the Cold War. We postured militarily during the Cold War, but the actual actions were few and far between. We won the Cold War with our culture because our system was demonstrably better for the people than communism was.

We would not have won the Cold War had we just up and invaded East Germany. And at the time, they were a FAR bigger threat to us than Iraq has ever been.

 

Nearly 1,000 in over a year,...at our hectic pace, it would take 56 or 57 years to approach this...

 

Won't Get Fooled Again

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgement of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the foe, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they'd all flown in the last war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
For I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

There's nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are out-phased, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now parting on the right
And their beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

 

I am not saying that we are losing as many as we did in Vietnam (there are a number of factors for this, better body armor, fewer engagements), but the situation is looking more and more like that action.

We are in a country where a large percentage do not want us.

It is very difficult to tell friend from enemy.

There does not appear to be a cohesive plan or direction.

Americans ARE coming home in body bags.

Of course, there are also some significant differences:

Companies are profiteering far more than was the case in 'Nam.

The entire action was based on faulty "intelligence" culled from the people who had the most to gain after an invasion.

There is no significant international support for this action.