We're up 2-1 going into the 8th, and we take out Oswalt... ? I can see the logic, if we had Mlicki or Redding pitching, where you never know when the wheels will come off. But, this is our f-ing ace pitcher. Next thing you know, Dotel's first pitch goes to the left-center gap for a double. Then Pujols lines a single over the drawn-in infield. Williams has said some crap about saving his pitchers for Sept and Oct, yatta yatta. But, someone needs to tell Jimy that the games won in May count as much as the games in Sept. Also, at this rate, we will not be in playoff contention come Sept. Jimy really needs to re-assess his dumbass philosophy with handling pitchers. Would it have hurt to start Oswalt in the 8th, and if he gets in a sticky situation, then bring in Dotel?
It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't here. Oswalt had 98 pitches so if he sends him out for the 8th he'd be in the 110 range and the pitch count crowd comes out of the woodwork. Dotel's job is to pitch in situations like tonight. It's not Jimy's fault he coughed up the lead.
From a fan's point of view...leave oswalt in. If I'm Jimy tho, I'd put in Dotel and Wags...and even if we lost (which we did)...I'd use it as blackmail for us to get those guys outta H-town. They suck and everybody knows it. We have 4 great young starters (Redding, Wade, Oswalt, Los)...and we don't need the 1-2 tandem of tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum to mess it up. Wagner's prime is gone. He ain't the "Kid" anymore...he's like 32. Time to face the facts, Hunsicker.
Jimy really needs to re-assess his dumbass philosophy with handling pitchers. Would it have hurt to start Oswalt in the 8th, and if he gets in a sticky situation, then bring in Dotel? Dotel's job is to pitch the 7th/8th in close games, and he's phenomenally good at it. He hadn't given up a run since May 1st. Occasionally, he's going to give up a run -- he's not perfect. And it's likely going to cost us games because he only pitches in close games. That's life. Nothing wrong with the decision Jimy made. If you can't use Dotel/Wagner in close games, then the team is dead anyway.
I understand that this wasn't an uncommon move, but damn. Oswalt IMO is perfectly capable of a complete game. If it wasn't for our bullpen he'd have 3 more wins.
hoopgod13- well coming from a fan's point of view, i guess you don't watch too many games. this is dotels first earned run in 3 weeks and wags hasn't given up a run in an even longer stretch i believe. what exactly is the problem again? wags isn't a youngster but 30 is far from old.
100% agreed!!! If you can't turn to Dotel in the 8th inning, your team is screwed anyway. He's your setup man...the situation called for a setup man...it didn't work out.
If this team could score more than two runs a game, then using Dotel and Wagner becomes a moot point.
BigM- No i watch every game..it just upsets me to see one of the Astro's 2 consistent starting pitchers (Hernandez being the other) to not be rewarded with a win. If you think the Astros don't need bullpen help, then ur kidding urself. Dotel and Wags have lost velocity on their fastballs...they might not have given up some runs in a while, but they get men on base...always providing for a stressful finish. Wags' slider just isn't there anymore...and to compete in the Central, we're gonna need a better pen. Anywayz...this is all just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
i never said our bullpen didn't need help. i completely agree it's very weak right now, but wags and dotel are not the problem and that was the discussion. wagner does not equal bullpen. he's one man and he hasn't given up an earned run since april 18th. it's impossible to ask any more from a closer.
For the second day in a row, Dotel looked like part of the problem. I'm beginning to worry that this Astro team is mediocre at best.
I completely understand the need for setup men and closers. My anger at Jimy is this How many complete games do the Astros as a staff own. I think zero without looking it up. There have been at least 5 or 6 very capable situations for complete games so far this season. Where is it written that in every situation the setup man and closer must finish all games with leads? Damnit, use your gut from time to time, cause the pen sure as hell isnt getting it done. Hell 5 or 6 more wins puts us at a half way decent point so far in this season.
Don't you hate when you go to post something and the above poster says EXACTLY what you want to say? Dreamshake hits it true...
If this team could score more than two runs a game, then using Dotel and Wagner becomes a moot point. Agreed. We scored 7 runs in this series. You're not going to without scoring. This team has a bad habit of scoring 1 or 2 runs a game then going to off for 15 so the stats look normal. These are our last 9 losses: 7-4 5-3 3-1 5-1 4-2 5-3 3-1 3-2 5-4 Even in LOSSES, we only gave up 4.5 runs per game. Our offense has to score more than they're doing. We've won exactly *1* game this year when giving up more than 4 runs (a 7-6 extra innings win the first week of the season). That's ridiculous and lies completely with the offense.
You realize that the 'Stros starters are 2nd in MLB with 31 quality starts in 46 games, and no 'Stros starter has an ERA over 4.35. If yer b****in' about the starters, Dotel or Wagner, you're way off base. It's all about the offense; this is quite possibly the worst situational hitting team I've ever seen. I'd venture to guess they've failed to drive in a runner from 3rd w/ less than 2 outs at least 15-20 times this year. Absolutely unacceptable.
No, Dotel belongs in that underachieving group in the pen. He had one decent week out of the whole year. Hes looked terrible against the Cards, and the last two games has given the game up. Damnit Jimmy. Take a lesson as to why you were rail roaded out of Bean town. We should of won the last two games of this series. I dont want to hear about hitting, we had the lead late in both of these games. Only poor Pen work, and questionable Managing decisions cost us these two games. Every game counts. Two more losses last year and we dont make the playoffs. Two more losses 3 years ago and we dont make the playoffs. UGH!
WTF? If 90% of MLB teams can just say, "If only we scored 7 runs..." then there would be a lot of 140-22 teams in the MLB... Fact remains that our offense sucks s#it through a straw. With that in mind, the bullpen must take it upon itself to perform in the clutch. Our setup guys and closers must be able to perform in the clutch. If they can't, then they should be mopup relievers. I can understand Jimy's motives, if we had one of the top bullpens in the MLB. Fact is, that we have a very average to poor bullpen. When you're bullpen stinks like this, it's asinine to lean towards going to the bullpen when the 8th inning comes, and our starting pitcher has been dominant. Blaming the offense is pretty ludicrous. Whether we are up 7-6 or 2-1, or whatever the hell the score is, our bullpen shouldn't do everything it can to just completely falter. How many more times will Jimy burn himself on the flaming hot stove?
