I guess it's about the players

The Rockets were pretty mediocre in the assists category during the Dream years. The problem is that they never run, and hence miss out on a lot of fast break assists that the Lakers certainly can get. It was only with Drexler did they start playing some transition basketball along with the half-court set.

As for the argument that "it's just the players". Well, Rudy PICKED the players. So it's his fault that he never got players that worked. Of course, we never got a chance to see how he'd do with Yao...

 

Of course it's about the players. It's the coaches job to use the players he has with the right system.

Nobody, I don't think (at least not me), was ever saying Rudy was a bad overall coach because he struggled so mightily after Dream left/declined. But he is a limited coach because the systems he knows, understands and likes don't work for every group of players.

It shoudl work for the Lakers because they do have that SUPERSTAR player in terms of talent. Rudy's systems specialize in maximizing that talent.

I think the Lakers should be decent offensively, but very limited defensively.

 

Rudy's teams here could essentially be divided as Dream era and Franchise run.

With a halfcourt, post up oriented offense, you aren't going to see many assists. Dream was in the best position to get them with his kick outs.

With Steve and Cat, Rudy became iso happy. Same situation - you'll only see an assist when they kick out to a shooter (which didn't happen often).

With LA, the Lakers are looking like a slightly more fullcourt type of team. If Odom is handling the ball, you'll end up with more flow in the offense. I'd have to say the only player in Houston during Rudy's tenure as head coach anywhere near Odom's level on playmaking and creating for others would have been Drexler.

And yes, that certainly is due in part to Rudy's personnel wishes. He always seemed to bring in big men with outside shooting (looking for people that reminded him of himself?), and premier offensive players. Rarely did the team bring in offensive "facilitaters" - guys like Odom, Kidd, Divac, and others that create for their teammates.

Evan

 

He did get players that worked. They worked as well as they worked under his successor. I'm sure you know that coaches don't just have every single player they want at their disposal at all times.

 

Except that he doesn't use the same system for every group of players and believes in tailoring the 'system' to fit the players' strengths. That's not limited, that's flexible. Limited = Van Gundy, Phil Jackson, Rick Pitino, etc.

 

He got players that were just good enough to put the Rockets at the edge of the playoffs. How is that working? Sure, they didn't play any better for JVG, and that's why JVG shipped them out as soon as he could.

I don't know about you, but I never thought the Jordan/Pippen combo is similar to the Shaq/Kobe combo. Phil might consistenly find teams that have stars, but it certainly doesn't matter what type of stars he's coaching.

As for JVG, the top players for his first season was Ewing/Mason/Harper/Starks/Oakley. The top players on his last season were Houston/Sprewell/Kurt Thomas/Camby/Mark Jackson. During which time the Knicks have NEVER missed the playoffs.

 

I am telling you, I don't always 100% agree with TheFreak, but I love his Rudy T posts. There will always be a part of me that defends Rudy T to the death, and Freak articulates that stuff better than anyone. Most of the time he's right, I think. This time is definitely one of those times.

I think Van Gundy's year last year pretty much vindicates Rudy. Not that he should not have moved on - in many ways, it was time - but man, the Franchise era sucked, and that was not Rudy's fault as a coach. As a quasi-GM, maybe. Or in not understanding it, maybe. But from a purely coaching X's and O's standpoint, Francis - at the plateau he hit after the migraine year - was not going to hold up a franchise, with or without Yao Ming, with or without Jedfff Van Gundy, with or without Rudy T. He may get Marbury-ish better in Orlando, but in Houston, he just could not run a fast break. It's one thing if Otis Thorpe can't runa break, but dude was our point guard, and after five years, he could not do it. To me, that's a coach-breaker. You miss 4-10 points per game in easy transition baskets, and that's maybe four or five losses during the season... Aint no Van Gundy defense or Rudy T. "player's coach" stuff getting those points back.

I just think that whole era was fairly well conceived but ill-executed. Cato sort of flamed, Dream sort of flamed, Cuttino was allright, Eddie Griffin flamed, Francis was Francis, Walt Williams sort of Buck Johnsoned ... unfortunately, coaches take the hit first.

But clearly, the toxicity was located not at the head of the bench, but at the head of the offense. Rudy's thing can work - hell, we won two rings with it - but it was not gonna work with Francis. And neither was Van Gundy's. I think Francis will get better, but he was not learning quickly enough. Rudy took the hit. After Rudy's departure and insignificant changes in result and progress occurred, the problem became obvious.

We're lucky we picked up McGrady for him, by the way. It could have been much, much, much worse.

Just to really control the variables on this experiment, I say we get a top-four seed in the west, fire van gundy, and hire back Rudy T. I am guessing there will not be that much difference.

 

Mightly? he had 2 losing season, and one of them was without his best player.

 

This isn't right. Rudy's system has been the same everywhere. "ISO" your best players and try to create situations via double-teams or pick and rolls with those players to create offense.

Yes, every coach does this to some extent, but the difference between Rudy's offense and the triangle offense, or the Kings offense are obvious.

Phil Jackson does use the same offense, the triangle, and he was blessed to be in situations where he had the right players to fit that offense - it clearly didn't work in Chicago post Jordan. That's why Phil left.

JVG - I think the argument about him is up in the air. Will have to see how the team's offense looks this year.

Every NBA coach "tailors" the offense to try and fit the players. Finding a coach who will completely change their offensive system and philosophy to fit their players, while being successful, is probably rare - I have trouble thinking of many, though Pat Riley was very successful at it for a while (Lakers vs. Knicks style). That's why Rudy had to go.

But he missed to playoffs repeatedly. Given that over half the teams in the West make the playoffs - well, that's failing.

 

i'm not going to say rudy was just tearing up the coaching profession or anything but outside of yao's first year, which of our non-playoff years could you make any legitimate argument we should've made them?


we were a team that lost drexler and barkley to retirement, hakeem essentially to retirement in toronto, and pippen for cato and walt williams. that's 4 HOFers for kelvin cato and walt williams. that's not good and is obviously the beginning of rebuilding.

also, the west had just started it's rise to superconference status. that is also not good, and really not good for a rebuilding team.

then we had two years where injuries stopped us before we started (francis' first year where hakeem and barkley, and the whole frontcourt at one point, were injured and then his 3rd year where taylor and rice were out for the season and francis missed 25 games).

in francis' second year, it was basically 2nd year francis and 3rd year mobley surrounded by guys like shandn, mo, 10 ppg hakeem, walt, bull, and moochie. that's a low level of talent. and they were playing in a conference with 7 50 win teams. and they still pulled out 45 wins, the most ever to not make the playoffs. i would say that was a huge overachievement that season. there's no way that's a 45 win team. and we were arguably the 10th best team in the league (check the records and our record versus the east if you disagree) and yet we don't make the playoffs because we were 9th in the west. we did as good as we could possibly do and still didn't make the playoffs. that's not on rudy. getting us that close was to his credit.

then there was 2 seasons ago with yao taking a while to get adjusted, then cratering the last month of the season and rudy missing the last month or so right after we won 5 in a row. now, i can see holding that against rudy that we didn't make the playoffs but the bad of that is not even close to the good of somehow winning 45 2 years before, imo. oh, and again we were easily in the top 16 teams that year (i would say 12) and yet again didn't make the playoffs. yeah, more than half the teams make it, but it hasn't been the best half in 5 years.


he certainly didn't fail for any length of time (1 year at the most).

 

You said he was a limited coach whose 'system' didn't work for every group of players. I think Larry Brown might disagree, having referred to Rudy as an offensive genius. What group of players does his 'system' not work for? He's had success with an Olympic team with every type of all-star imaginable, as well as a World Championship team with a bunch of no-names (Bronze medal). The triangle offense is limited to the players you have. The Princeton offense is limiting. Rudy's offenses work for everyone. Who is going to teach Steve Francis the Princeton offense? Why try? Again, what group of players does his 'system' not work for?