when scorning and shunning are insufficient. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/o... and Op-Ed/Editorials&oref=slogin&oref=slogin [rquoter]Another Killing in Lebanon It is too early to know who ordered this week’s assassination of the Lebanese cabinet minister Pierre Gemayel, but there are many reasons to suspect Syria. Mr. Gemayel opposed Syria’s unrelenting campaign to dominate Lebanon’s fragile democracy. If the cabinet now loses even one more minister, through intimidation or worse, Lebanon’s pro-Western government will collapse — a collapse that Hezbollah, Syria’s ally and henchman, has been publicly seeking. In a Middle East plagued by constant tragedy and defeat, Lebanon’s Cedar Revolution and the ousting of Syrian troops last year was a rare and precious victory. The United States and the international community must now rally to support Prime Minister Fouad Siniora — with cash, security advisers, and anything that might help him and his government survive. Damascus must also be told that it will pay a high price — in scorn, isolation and sanctions — if it is found to have ordered Mr. Gemayel’s death, or the deaths or maiming of a half-dozen other anti-Syrian politicians and journalists. Hezbollah must be told that it will be shunned if it tries to grab power through further violence or intimidation. The United Nations took an important step this week, approving the creation of a tribunal to prosecute the killers of Rafik Hariri, a former prime minister. The only question there is which top Syrian official gave the order. This page believes that the United States needs to begin a dialogue with Syria, about Iraq and regional peace. But President Bashar al-Assad needs to understand that neither the tribunal nor Lebanon’s independence will ever be on the bargaining table. Europe, Russia and all of Syria’s neighbors need to join Washington in delivering that message. Hezbollah has been insisting on veto power over all government decisions, including whether it will participate in a U.N. tribunal. If there is any possible good to come from Mr. Gemayel’s death, it is that Hezbollah will now have to postpone its announced plan to call thousands of demonstrators into the street to bring down the government. We hope Mr. Siniora can use this time to rally the majority of Lebanese who still believe in national reconciliation and the spirit of the Cedar Revolution. We would urge Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to go immediately to Beirut, except we’re not sure she would be welcome after President Bush’s failure last summer to restrain Israel’s disastrous air war. Ms. Rice might still do some good if she brought with her a large group of European and moderate Arab foreign ministers. That is a sad admission about the limits of American influence. But Mr. Siniora needs all the help he can get.[/rquoter] Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
Bush, and Rice, have no credibility in Lebanon after giving tacit approval (to be charitable) to Israel's destruction of the country's infrastructure, and the killing and wounding of countless civilians while doing so. I agree that it's a rather strange editorial, but the thrust of it is that we have no real influence and credibilty... there, and elsewhere in the region, after Bush's debacle in Iraq, and his silent applause while Israel was blowing the crap out of Lebanon. If you're going to fart, basso, just be sure and stay downwind. D&D. Almost as Good as a B&B with a Hot Tub.
my point was, the editorial is emblematic of how the isolationist left just doesn't get it. syria is killing lebanese politicians, backing hezbollah in it's assult not only on israel but also on the elected governement of lebanon, and the strongest response the times can muster is they should be shunned? Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
My wife and I are staying in a cabin, over a hundred years old, but with a high-tech upgrade, for our anniversary in February. (a B&B, but unlike any we've been to before... went last year and loved it) It has a wonderful hot tub surrounded by a high stucco wall. STAY OUT OF IT!!! Hey, I agree that it's a strange editorial. Even bizarre. All I can figure is that everyone was recovering from a late party when it was decided on. Maybe they were burning up a reefer to cure the hangover. D&D. Don't Fart in the Hot Tub!
So what is your solution that we should threaten to invade Syria? Syria knows that's a bluff as long as we're bogged down in Iraq.
i'm not suggesting we should invade syria because of their involvement in Lebanon, although i advocated a military response to their meddling in iraq.
With what? We got nothing left. This administration squandered the biggest military asset the US had... the image of technological and military superiority... on a stupid vanity quest in Iraq... and they did it by over-extending and crippling a volunteer army with an ill-defined mission, poor equipment, and tactical decisions that placed more importance on domestic political expediency than military objectives (even if you could define them). Now, our military options in other countries are either nuke them or tell them "tsk-tsk." The NYTimes, falling on the sane part of the divide, advocates scorn and shunning instead of dropping nukes. Good for them... it just shows you how bankrupt our current administration has left US Foreign Policy. (And I do hope you appreciate the irony in your Rumsfeld sig quote.)
yeah just drag some aircraft carriers into the gulf, then right click on a squad of bombers, then choose "drop cluster bombs", then you will be propted for a city just type "damascus" and hit enter.. then tell us what happens next..
I see basso is trying to divert attention away from Iraq. I guess you buy into the general neocon philosophy of 'expanding the war' to Syria and Iran. The Likud party applauds you...
is that supposed to be an insult? i would note that the Likud part happens to be part of a democratic country/government. how many arab "parties" can you say that about?
I believe there are 2 or 3 arab parties that have representation in the Knesset. Either way, the fact that Likud is part of a democratic process doesn't insulate it from criticism. The Neo-Nazis have representation in the Bavarian Parliament and are part of a democratic system but I'm pretty sure it's ok to criticize their ideas on policy.
I haven't heard "isolationist left" in a while. I thought the conservatives were. Wierd how things and the positions people choose change.
Not really an insult, no, I am just pointing out that your views would be welcomed by the more extreme wing in Israeli politics, which shares your 'vision' of having the U.S. go after both Syria and Iran militarily, not in the least fazed by the 'lessons' of Iraq. Of course, you also share the 'vision' of some of the more prominent neoconservatives who continue to believe that the only way to 'salvage' Iraq is to expand the war to -- first and foremost -- Iran and may be even Syria, thereby engulfing the entire region from the Mediterranean to Central Asia -- and most likely beyond -- in a conflict larger than anything the world has seen since WWII. More importantly, no one would welcome your 'vision' more than the Muslim extremists who would love nothing more than for the entire Muslim world to come under attack, thereby forcing even the moderate majority to see things their way, they would have no other choice...that's been the plan all along: set the trap and let them walk into it, let 'them' prove us right. Not that there is anything wrong with that...
I am curious basso, our military intervention in Iraq has improved things in your opinion? You would like to see more of that style of improvement?
The problem is that there is NO MILITARY solution to this problem, there IS NO BATTLEGROUND to be fought by the military. Diplomatic pressures, and if you need to...assasination squads.....but not the Army, that doesn't work. DD
Let me address another point here... Hate to break it to you, basso, but democracy doesn't always -- or even often -- produce 'desirable' characters. Democracies can and do produce the likes of Hitler. Democracies are not inherently 'virtuous' or even 'good'; they're merely another political system/theory of governance. Democracies won't always produce 'desirable' results -- at least from our POV (see Hamas, Hezbollah, Muslim Brotherhood, and others). It's exactly that kind of simplistic and naive thinking that got the current administration -- and our country -- into the mess we're in now.
