I am sick and tired of all these extremists in our country!

They say that the Taliban is captalizing on our weakness-- which they have identified as our compassion. That's a tough irony, isn't it?

The new is more about ratings and viewership than it is about getting the story right in most instances.

I have no doubt that most of those starving, un-armed Afghans can or could do nothing about the Taliban.... until the US ground forces come a askin' about there whereabouts.

 

Not meaning to start a flame war here.

But Islam is not the only religion that "would go out and kill people with different views than them."

The crusades and the inquisition comes to mind

 

How exactly is this post any better than what Q8 Rocket posted that caused such a stir?

Are you suggesting that all the Islamic people who say that Islam is a peaceful religon are lying?

By the way, the Bible advocates all KINDS of things that could easily be labelled extreme. Every religon does. The KKK, TO THIS DAY, believes it is fighting a Christian fight.

You can be as disapproving as you like of "liberal extremists" and you can disagree with that point of view as much as you like, but this "Muslims believe in killing non-believers" garbage is ridiculous. I've spent the past week working with a member of the Islamic community. I guess he wants me dead too.

By the way, it would help if you read the "Karun". Of couse, you can't read it if you can't spell its name.

 

I am by no means an expert on Islam, but from what I can gather the religion itself is no more violent then Christianity (although there is nothing like the New Testament in the Koran). The Koran actually states that nonbelievers aren't to be slaughtered, they are to be converted - pretty much exactly what Christianity says. Mohammed prayed to Jesus at Jerusalem. And while Mohammed was a warrior, that is not really important in relation to Christianity, as every figure in the Bible save Jesus was a warrior, too. From what I've gathered, the Koran is very similar to the Old Testament...

The problem as I see it is the way that it is interpreted. That was of course the problem with Christianity in centuries past as well; the crusades and the Inquisition were really just political and social maneuvers that were hidden behind religious doctrine. The muslims in many parts of the world today are in the same situation. I keep saying that many parts of Islamic culture are stuck in the 12th century...

But there is really nothing wrong with the religion itself as far as I can tell. There is something wrong with the people who interpret it/use it as a call to destroy the West.

 

Resolve the fundamental underlying social problems to prevent such an event from ever happening again. Military solutions are a band-aid. Real change is necessary as well.

You realize that this basically justifies Al Queda's position? They think they're at war with the United States. They realize they don't have the military capabilities to deal directly with the military, so they attack civilians. "THIS IS WAR! WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?"

I don't buy that. I think it's always illegitimate to allow for a high # of civilian casualties. A certain number are inevitable. But if we allow that it's irrelevant, then we're no better than they are. Life is sacred. That's why we're involved in this war.

American's too easily forget the consequences of their countries actions. When we set embargos, bomb other nations, send in the troops, etc... we have to remember that there's often a real human cost in other countries. Quite frankly, we often lack perspective since we've "had it so good for so long."

The media is doing us a valuable service by reminding us of the human costs of our actions. All policies have consequences. Even if they're worth it, ultimately, we need to understand the price we're paying. And if that includes knowing we killed some innocents... well, it's pretty damned ridiculous to pretend it's not happening. And in fact, it's pretty callous to try to ignore it.

When civilians in the US die, you want to know and want revenge... but when we kill Afghans, you'd rather it not make the front page? Hypocrite.

Is it radical to want long-term solutions? Is it radical to value human life regardless of ethnicity or culture?

I

 

haven:

I agree, but when you're bleeding and you can't get to the hospital, you use a band aid. But I agree that the underlying social issues need to be addressed. I just haven't heard anyone propose a realistic solution on how to do that. I know that the US is not 100% innocent, but the Islamic world needs to realize that blaming every single problem in the world on the US isn't going to accomplish anything. They need to look inwards and admit their own faults too if anything is ever going to change, and as a group they have thus far proven incapable of doing so.

I agree that the media should report on the civilian casualties, but to do so over and over again only helps the Taliban in its PR war. The civilian casualties have, relative to other wars, been extremely light thus far. The media needs to report it, but it needs to be put in the right perspective. We are trying to avoid civilian casualties (something many of the world's armies don't bother trying to do); as I said before the Afghans should thank us for having such accurate bombs. Now if we can only perfect our targeting practices there would be no civilian casualties... But it ain't a perfect world.

 

My 2 cents here.

Most religions (churches) are corrupted by man. A person's faith is used against them so that a group or person's can have power.

Evil groups kill/steal/pillage in the name of God/Allah/etc

It has been going on since the beginning of time. No GOD would endorse any hatred in his name.

And I can't think of a religion that endorses violence, all religions are peacful in theory.

It is hard to not impede on other's freedoms at a time like this. National Security must take precedent over personal freedom.

 

But what are the 'underlying social problems'? The individuals who committed 9-11 were not exactly impoverished. A number of the hijackers were well-educated sons of wealthy Saudi families.

The underlying problem is that there are some bad people in the world, and they lack the power the US has. That is what it comes down to. Now either we can treat them as bad people, or we can continue to make excuses for their future atrocities.

 

You hit it right on the head Mr Spur

Evil people like Bin Laden wait in the weeds for a situation (Israel/Middle East conflict) that they can use to commit attrocities. Similar to Hitler blaming everything on the Jewish people and then trying to kill them all.

If the US had never backed Israel or put troops in Saudia Arabia then you can bet that Bin Laden would have found a different cause to "justify" his terrorism.

 

<b>haven</b>: Their targets are exclusively civilian. Our targets are exclusively military. They cannot have collateral damage; we can. And you see it as being pretty much the same? I don't get it.

 

I dont even know where to start on this one. If you want to be ignorant thats your problem. "Islam" means peace by the way. Do you know anything about Islam before basically calling it a religion of terror? You sound just as ignorant as those protestors in the Islamic countries. I am a Muslim and I higly doubt anyone on this board thinks I am out to convert them or kill them.

 

Exactly. This is what gives us the right to hit Red Cross warehouses repeatedly and say "oops!"

 

<b>DoD</b>: Do you think we are hitting those Red Cross warehouses on purpose? Why? Are you kidding? Have you tried using a smiley? Please explain.

 

Not that I doubt you, but I do recall reading that Islam means "submission", not "peace". Might there be a reason for this, such as differing translations of ancient texts?

 

I am not that knowledgealbe (sp?) about Islam. Pretty bad for a muslim huh? Anyways my girlfriend who know much much more then me tells me that "Islam" is a verb and that it means "to make peace".

 

i hate to do this because this was one of those rare times when i almost agreed with treeman completely...but the prophet NEVER PRAYED TO JESUS. thats all...we pray to god not a person. we consider jesus a person...a messenger like muhammad but a person never the less.

the word islam comes from the rootword 'sa-la-ma' which means peace. the word peace in arabic implies peace which you get when you submit. so linguistically islam comes from peace but the more accurate translation according to most people is submission.

by the way the redcross is definately much more civilian then the pentagon.