The chronicle reported that Jerry West wasn't that thrilled with Yao Ming. He conceded that Yao Ming has skills, but his hesitance to play physically makes his height negligible. West went so far as to say that to win a championship, a team needs a physical prescence down low. If things in China haven't gotten any clearer in the next few days (say by Fri) we should seriously get back in touch with the Clips and Bulls. Which of these deals would you all prefer? #1 and KT for Odom, #8 Hilario, #12 Borchardt, #15 Nachbar or #1 and KT for Curry and #2 Butler I really like the first deal. Odom starts at the 3 from day 1 with Nachbar and Rice behind him (Odom can also play the 1,2 and 4 in a pich). Hilario and Borchardt won't give us a lot of points, but will be very physical and give us a LOT of depth at the 4/5. Hilario has impressed EVERYONE he has worked out for, he's being compared to Ben Wallace and Dennis Rodman in terms of his physical play and tenacious reboundng. Borchardt is a legit 7 footer with range and shot blocking. These guys provide depth at all of our frontcourt positions, making it possibly better than our backcourt in a year or two. Cato/Borchardt/Hilario-BIG guys with D Griffin/MoT/Hilario-Finesse and power Odom/Rice/Nachbar-playmaker and 2 shooters Cuttino/Torres/Steve-we know what we have Steve/Mooch-see last comment The second deal requires that the Bulls really LOVE Jay Williams, but I think that they do. If we can scare them into thinking Jay is heading to LA or GS they might offer Curry for KT and switching picks. Curry, I think, is a better prospect than Chandler simply because he is the closest thing to Shaq in the L. He is huge and athletic with actual bball skills. Butler gives us that Mario Elie D with much better scoring. Regardless, depth would still be an issue with this team. Cato/Curry/Griffin-Curry+Cato=size and athleticism and more size Griffin/MoT-please Eddie hit the weights Rice/Butler/Morris-Rice starts for 2 weeks Mobley/Torres Steve/Mooch/Tierre Whichever way we go, I really think that we are better than by just adding Ming and #15. What do you all think and what other deals might be out there?
Does the first one work cap wise? I don't think so because Thomas was a late first and Odom was an early pick. Maybe it is close enough but the Rockets can't take extra salary. If the Clippers take Rice, then it can be done.
If China wont come through for us what makes you think they will do it for another Team? It sounds that the hold up is how much Yao Ming is willing to pay CBA and Sharks!
West is a basketball genius and has a lot of integrity. He deserves a lot of respect as do his opinions. Could he be trying to scare our guys so that we make a deal? I don't think so, this isn't Mark Cuban, this is Jerry West.
I don't know why people continue to make these scenarios when the likelihood of it happening is not probable. 1. West is very shrewd. Whatever he says, you have to discount unless he is your GM. Who do you think West would take? 2. If the Rockets cant get Ming, what makes you think we will get Odom and the 8 and 12. Plus I doubt the Rockets want to take on all those guaranteed contracts. That's part of the reason they traded last year's #1 for Morris. Repeat after me, NO GUARANTEED CONTRACT. They will not want to take on 3 guaranteed contracts when they don't know who will be available. Assuming the Clips wil want to trade Odom and the #8 for the #1. Under your scenario, We get Odom and Hilario and Nachbar. Odom is a guaranteed success. This man has the IQ of a rock and has been suspended twice for drugs (which means he's been busted 4 times) and is coming off a season ending injury. Yeah, he's a slam dunk. Hilario is a project. Yes he has a long wingspan and is a tough guy, but this is the ultimate project. He gives you 0 offense. That leaves Nachbar. Odom and Nachbar play the same position. How many wins will this lineup give us? 45-55 for the next kazillion years and a first round ticket to mediocrity. As far as Scenario 2. I told my friend how about giving us Curry and the #2 for the #1. He laughed so hard I think he hurt himself. He said who would be stupid enough to make that deal? Apparently some clueless people here.
I remember reading that they really wanted Kobe and didn't try to hide that fact from anybody. So if your saying that West said Kobe sucked before the draft as a ploy to get him and that he's doing the same to us, well I don't buy that.
Well, that's certainly one interpretation of his words, which can be seen here. As is the nature of most GM's, he was careful to be non-definitive with his answers. And no offense to West, but not even he can ascertain what Yao is or isn't from a light workout in a halfcourt set.
It doesn't matter how smart he is. He's seen him play in a crappy half-ass workout and maybe a little video tape. I mean do you actually believe that the Rockets shouldn't take Ming just because Jerry West wasn't impressed with him in the limited amount of time he's seen him? Give me a break! and by the way, I just watched the Jerry West Interview and he was impressed with Ming. He mentioned a few questions about his game, but said it's nothing Ming couldn't adjust to. There's questions about every prospect entering the NBA. Noone is a sure thing.
First off Yao Ming has absolutely nothing to do with any of these trades. If we trade the #1, repeat after me, it will be for the rights to Jay Williams. Nobody but us want the MING. People, I dont know what kind of conspiracy theories y'all believe in but just to get it staright Ming will NOT be allowed to play in Memphis so what does Jerry have to gain by giving his opinion of the chump? Riet- And Shaq is a member of Mensa? The guy can hoop, I dont want him doing molecular biology just playing ball. Hilario has played the same quality comp that Ming has and his body is much more NBA ready so the project tag may not be so onesided. To be honest I dont see any post player getting consistent big games when he is guarded by 3 7-footers who just pound him. The lane would be a no mans land for guards and wings with Hilario and Griffin rejecting everything coming towrds them. Also, Odom and Nachbar play the same position (although Lamar is not just a 3) but they bring different aspects to that position. One is a shooter the other does a bit of everything. Bring on some criticism with foundation or post in another thread. Steviereb- hey that is even better if we can get rid of Rice
UT Baller, Shaq was not busted 4 times for smoking pot his first 3 years in the league. You have to be EXTREMELY stupid. Also, Odom had an injured wrist the beginning of the year and aggravated lit later. Then he slipped on a basketball and supposedly sprained his ankle. Odom has immense basketball skills and the mind of a 4 year old child. Those were the same questions people had of him when he was at Rhode Island. Wow what a shock, those questions still exist. As far as Jerry West, any moves the Rockets make affect him. he drafts behind us not ahead of us. Frankly, I think Rudy and CD has seen more of Ming than West. You get that way when you actually have a vested interest. Nene Hilario - From all scouting reports he has 0 offensive skills. How many years did it take Ben Wallace to develop. If you think Hilario will step in on day 1, youre dreaming. If the scouts really believed that, he would go in the top 5 not 8-15. Expect at least 2-3 years minimum. Like I said, the fundamental question is how many wins does that take us? 45-55 and a one way ticket to mediocrity. Thanks UT Baller, that's what we're aiming at.
Look if West was still retired then I might consider his opinion but he is a GM of another team...right? So whatever he says has to be said in his or his team's best interest. I like West as a person and I respect him. I just think his comments would be a bit different if he had the first pick.
Something to prove CNnSI Sports Illustrated Unstoppable ... unpredictable, Clippers' Odom has it all Click here for more on this story Posted: Monday July 05, 1999 09:57 PM The Clippers may have nabbed the most talented player in the draft in Lamar Odom. AP LOS ANGELES (CNN/SI) -- Lamar Odom's list of attributes reads like a best seller. At 6-10, he's got the size to go inside. He has fabulous touch from the perimeter. He blocks shots. Crashes the boards. Longtime Temple coach John Chaney said he's never seen a player who was harder to defend. And while Odom's completely unselfish, he wants the ball with the game on the line. "There were many NBA scouts in Rhode Island for his first game and after the game we all went out, had an O'Douls and sat down around a table," said Jeff Weltman, director of scouting for the Los Angeles Clippers. "One guys sits down and -- this is November -- he says, 'Whose going No. 2? "That's how impressive he was." How then did Lamar Odom slide to the Clippers with the fourth selection in Wednesday's NBA Draft? It's because of the negative side of his ledger. Odom went to three high schools. UNLV released him from a letter of intent because a discrepancy over test scores. He moved on to Rhode Island, actually entered the NBA Draft twice and tried to return to school both times. He hired an agent, parted ways with him and then blew off scheduled workouts with several NBA teams, including the Chicago Bulls, who had the No. 1 pick The Bulls didn't get the chance to talk with Odom until the eve of the draft. Coach Tim Floyd even had chartered a plane to meet Odom in Rhode Island -- only to get stood up when he got there. "He's a guy who is very talented," said Floyd, whose Bulls opted for Duke's Elton Brand instead of Odom. "We were pleasantly surprised when we interviewed him as well. It was not a case of not liking Lamar Odom, but he did confuse us initially." Odom, though, says he was just as confused himself. "I just needed to step back and clear my head," said Odom, whose mother died when he was 12. "You know, I'm only 19 and a lot was happening real fast -- people coming from everywhere at you." Still, Odom's pattern of immaturity, indecisiveness and irresponsibility sent up red flags to the teams picking high in the draft. The Clippers spent as much time looking into Odom's off-court past as they did his on-court performance They concluded the potential rewards outweighed the risks...... 3 years later, he's been suspended twice already for drug abuse. He's really matured and is unbelievably dependable. Slam dunk here.
What West said about him are legit concerns. I'm not saying we shoul not take Ming, but come on, we shouldn't avoid the fact that he's a center and doesn't want to bang. People here pick Francis and Mobley's games apart for their deficiencies, with no sympathy. What's wrong with admitting that Ming isn't perfect? The guy is the best option at center, no question, but he does have some problems. It's like Francis, as a PG, needs to improve his assists/turnover ratio. Well, Ming as a center needs to learn how to play inside.
Jerry West said that the high school players need to go to college, then traded Vlade for a 17yr old. If he had the number 1, who would he pick? Probably ming
How do you know he avoids contact? How do you know that is a legitimate concern? Ming is the player with the highest ceiling. If any of the players in this draft can be a franchise player, it is Ming. MING IS THE SECOND BEST CENTER IN THE GAME ALREADY. In five years, Ming will be 27 and Shaq will be 35. Ming will be in his prime. Which center has more potential? None! You cannot pass on him. One more thing. Officiating is very important in the NBA. Ming brings more fans. More fans bring more pressure. More pressure brings more calls.
I don't think there's anyway the Clipps offer Odom and the #8 for the #1 straight up. This is us giving up a number one for a number 4(who could have been a 1) and a number 8. Even our # 1 and KT would not get this deal done. If I'm the Clipps, I'm thinking the 1 and EG for Odom and #8 are worth it. Remember EG hasn't proven himself yet and the Clipps can use that to their advantage. I don't see a trade happening with them where we don't give up something substantial such as EG or Cat.
UT Baller, We've been in full agreement on this and these comments by West kind of highlight all the concerns. I wouldnt go so far as to say that Ming's height is negligible b/c he cant play inside, but the basic assumption is not far off. My biggest concern going the Ming route is that this team will be very soft inside much like Dallas and really will lack the interior toughness necessary to make it in the deep rounds of the playoffs. I have never doubted what Ming can do from the perimeter and out of the high post. I also agree that our offense will be much improved once/if Ming develops. However, I think our basic interior defense and toughness is going to seriously lack, and I am not convinced with simple zones will make the difference. If it was that easy, Dallas wouldnt be getting waxed in the later rounds of the playoffs. From the way the draft is stacking up now, Nene Hilario would be the likely pick at 8. It is looking like Chris Wilcox has become a top 7 pick at this stage thus leaving Hilario at 8. None of Lamar Odom's problems are large enough in my estimation to outweigh the positives of his acquisition. I think Ive tried to view this situation as objectively as I can. Not once in my argument have you seen any comparisons of Yao Ming to Shawn Bradley or anything crazy like that. I cant really say the same for some of the pro-Ming folks calling Odom a "dime a dozen player" or just an average player. I really have a hard time understanding how a 6-10 player that handles and distributes as well as Odom can be viewed as that. Honestly, out of all the point forwards in the game, not one of them has the ball handling, passing, court sense, court vision, etc of Odom. The others may be better scorers than Odom but none of them top him in this area of being able to create and make the game easier for his teammates. Odom will really make the game so much easier for Francis and Mobley and fit so well on this ballclub. Not to mention a player like Hilario will toughen up this frontline. Thats probably the final comment I'll make on this Ming issue; I think Ive said pretty much all I can. I just hope that whatever decision the Rockets make pans out.
