HP- Look at that Laker defense with their feet WIDE apart.

Not to quibble, but I think that the theoretical idea is that by spreading your feet apart it lowers your center of gravity, widens your base, and by bending your knees provides more leverage for your quads and hammstrings, so that you can accelerate quicker and thus recover faster when somebody tries to drive.

I will also say that, from experience, I can state with absolute uncertanty that if you aren't conditioned/haven't built the muscles in the quads and gluts that are involved in the 'squat' type exercise, that getting in this defensive 'crouch' is counterproductive, as it tends to be very taxing on these muscles, thus reducing the effeciveness of players late in the game.

That, and it's also sort of one of those 'details of fundimentals' of the game, along with the 'triple threat' position and the 'bank shot' that seem to have fallen to the wayside in the NBA game.

 

Maximized lateral quickness in any sport is not achieved with legs spread way beyond your shoulder frame like Langhi does. If you really believe otherwise, then you really must like Langhi.

 

HeyPee,

I am one of the many who really do appreciate your thoughts and contributions to this board. That being said, you are wrong about not spreading your legs to play D in basketball. You learn that at camps of any level. Yes, it is tiring, but it must be conditioned.

No, they shouldn't be "way beyond" your shoulder frame, but your legs will be out and knees will be bent. I don't think DaDakota is preaching for people to do the splits on D, and if my memory serves me right, I really do think you were against the whole spreading legs/bending knees idea and said some stuff like staying in front of the guy like Cat did to Stackhouse.

Now that would work in off ball situations and in post play. But when your playing D and a guy wants to take you to the whole, you get down, bend your knees, spread your legs and move laterally, almost like a linebacker.

 

This reminds me of the debate I had with rimbaud when I said I dribble a basketball as if I were shooting a ball at the court...with full wrist flex off the pads of my hands (if not most of the palm) and definitely not with just my fingers nor stunted wrist flex. They don't teach you to dribble like you shoot, but it is done.

In Tennis, they don't teach you to serve like you are throwing a boomerang, but it is the best way to hit 120 mph while keeping the ball in the court.

Kim,

Seriously, I like your posts, too. In fact, I have a running bet with several people here that I like their posts more than they like mine. We haven't quite figured out how to judge the bet, but do you want to join the bet???

That said: don't spread your legs against me; I will attack one of them, get on your hip and turn your corner. You will be left taking a step back with that foot I just attacked. What defenders need is the ability to move laterally based on the move of an opponent, a wide receiver, a ground ball, or a fast serve in tennis. You do that by moving a leg OUT from your base, based on the direction of where you need to go. That is the whole idea behind the hop (not to say you hop in bball). You can't move out if both your legs are already out, you would have to establish one as an anchor from which to move.

Looking at people with spread legs is deceptive. Without getting into the dynamics of Ozzy Smith or Andre Agassi spreading their legs before 120 mph objects come flying at them in unpredicatable ways, let me just say that great defenders are floating our they feet before they need to react. Langhi's feet are pressed to the floor and wide beyond his frame.

If you spread you legs too wide and wave your arms in an intimidating fashion, you may foil a gecko trying to steal your beer, but you are merely throwing an intimidating facade of wings and legs at your opponent...like this:

<img src="http://www.afgrant.com/larry/images/africa/tusker.jpg">

I'm still going to score...at that bar.

 

I was always taught that the best perimeter defensive position is feet spread (legs spread is just too sexy) to shoulder width. Knees flexed. 70% of weight on your toes. Keep your head between your knees for balance. Never bring your feet together when you move laterally or you'll get crossed-over.

 

giddyup,

I was taught 80% weight on my toes. I wonder what Langhi was taught? And Payton.

 

Actually, it's 74.375% weight on your toes...

<b>EXACTLY!!!</b>

 

This is not a serious standard. Dan Langhi has the narrowest shoulder frame in the NBA. To avoid spreading his feet beyond his shoulder frame, he would have to cross his legs.

 

If you're quick enough to do this, you will be able to drive past someone even easier with their legs together (at their base). It takes longer to move your leg out from your base then it does to move it from a defensive position with legs slightly greater than shoulder width, knees flexed, weight on your toes. That is the defensive position I was taught in high school and have seen taught by many other coaches and players at camps, etc for man to man defense.

Below is a description of defense found through a simple search. It was how I was taught when I was younger by various coaches/camps with many of the drills described.

The proper stance is to have your knees bent and your feet spread apart by at least 2 feet or more. Your arms should outstretched to make you as wide as possible. Your hands should positioned with palms up. This should make you only about 2/3 of your normal height. If this is the case, your stance is on the money. Now teach your kids this stance.

Once they have their stance, here's a little defensive drill. They all line up about 6 feet apart, in their proper stance, facing you. They are to watch you and follow your movement. You move quickly to the right, they move. You go left, they move as well. You go backward, they follow you. Watch them the whole time and make sure they keep the proper stance. Do this several times for practice. When you feel they know it, divide them into 2 teams. One is offensive, one is defensive. The offensive player is to run down the court at half speed while moving right, left, backwards, and forwards. The defensive player is to stay within 3 feet of the offensive player, and they are always to stay between the offensive player and the basket. Do this without balls. The offensive player's goal is to get past the defensive player. Remember, only 1/2 speed. Have them do it the length of the court. Once they hit the opposite baseline, they switch positions. Offense becomes defense, and defense becomes offense.

Here is a picture, although some of those kids are bent over a little too much.



Obviously, once you get to the NBA level, you do whatever allows you to be quickest laterally, but this is the stance that would allow that if properly trained.

 

Yeah, DaDakota, that explains why no white people can play in the NBA...because they lack defensive fundamentals.

I'm sure Nowitski was taught the linebacker stance like a good Texas bball coach-who-really-wanted-to-be-a-football-coach would have him do. That's some outstanding gecko defense there Nowitski. Don't forget to wave your arms.

But I digress into a Fran Blinebury tangent.

I guess you've never seen a Ozzie Smith hop at impact or a Andre Agassi hop at impact. Who needs better lateral quickness than them? ummm, well....Chilavert does. Chilavert hops right before impact on penalty kicks, too. Or was he taught the linebacker stance in Paraguay and kinda leans and falls to the left or right, since you can't jump laterally off a wide base.

btw: what the hell is a "linebacker stance," is that a lineman stance sans the 3rd point? Football players really need names like that, I guess. I love Texans using football terminology to explain basketball to me. So why don't they teach the "basketball stance" in Texas. No wonder your colleges suck so bad in basketball.

We need furriegners who have learned "linebacker stance" to play ball fer us here in Texas.

 

You've timed this, 'eh? Sounds like some mighty fine gecko defense logic. Let me ask a question, do you play defense with your legs and arms more than your hips and shoulders?

btw: who's closer on the weight on your toes thing: giddyup saying 70% or me saying 80%?

I'm still waiting on someone to post us Basketball 101 Teaching Tips on this weight on toes thing. Someone once told me it was 100% on toes, but maybe that is for the Linemen 3 Point Stance since the 3rd point prevents you from tipping over face first into the ground.

 

well done JayZ, you stepped up with BBall 101 for us. But I like my picture better. And I'm funnier.

Two feet apart is your shoulder frame...don't you think? It is not the same as Langhi's 4-5 foot stance. However, your BBall 101 description does allow for 4 feet, and 5 feet for that matter. Add waving arms to that, and you are a dancing gecko, and Langhi.

Poor Langhi can't quite grasp that BBall 101 is just a learning experience, not something to rely on as a professional bball player.

 

It's just a matter of your body already being closer to your next defense spot when guarding someone right in front of you one-on-one. One can't, for example, run a football field faster this way than normal, but to keep someone right in front of you, or draw a charge, it is more efficient when done properly. If you get beat by a fake, for example, your taught to turn on the afterburners, get back in front of the player, and regain your defense stance and not get beat again. Certainly, I agree with Ottoman when he mentioned

if you aren't conditioned/haven't built the muscles in the quads and gluts that are involved in the 'squat' type exercise, that getting in this defensive 'crouch' is counterproductive, as it tends to be very taxing on these muscles, thus reducing the effeciveness of players late in the game.

...but it doesn't mean I wouldn't run Steve or Mobley through drills continually over the summer to try and get them to think laterally with proper defensive stance.

I'd agree with you on Langhi though. He doesn't do it properly and has poor lateral quickness already, so it just makes him bad.

From what I've noticed in baseball, this position isn't used because given infielder is often either moving in on a play, covering longer distances or diving on way or another - things which this defensive position is not good for.

You should balance your weight so that you are most comfortable with the positon and can use it most efficiently.

 

Damn, nobody knows how to play defense:

 

rimmy, thanks for showing pictures of great dribblers dribbling like they are shooting the ball. Do you see anyone there using only their fingertips like how BBall 101 explains in that link you posted in Crisco's dribbling thread.

Anyhow, back on topic: post Langhi's picture, and you will be on topic. The topic wants to be about how I say that no one spreads their legs. To topic is about how I once said Langhi spreads his legs toooo far.

He stands wider than Maxwell in the bottom picture, and I'm sorry: that is too far wide. I'd like to see Maxwell's stance once the offensive player gets within striking distance of him. I'm sure in closes up more like Payton in picture #3.

As for the rest of the pictures, bodying-up someone is off topic.

now allow me to go find some pictures...

here's a nice one of Payton:

you mean to tell me Payton could kick Parker like that with a 5' base as a beginning.

<img src="http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/parker_254_020427.jpg">

http://www.nba.com/media/spurs/parker_254_020427.jpg

 

One thing that Ozzie Smith and Andre Agassi DON'T have to do is keep their body in a position to get in someone's face quickly while still being able to move laterally. As someone else mentioned, the further your feet are apart, the more weight is concentrated on your toes, and that makes it easier to lean forward or quickly step forward to get a hand in someone's face. I don't know what leg position is best to have lateral quickness, but it is intuitive to me (just standing up in my room and attempting it) that if your legs are shoulder length apart, it is slower to step into a player's jumper than if they are further apart.

 

He could if he was grabbing his jersey and holding him.