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Howard Dean's Plan to Dramatically Raise Taxes on You

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Liberals: Are you fully aware of your own personal financial consequences related to electing Howard Dean? This article spells it out nicely for you. Howard Dean wants to reach his tiny little hands into your pockets and grab the hard-earned cash that you had planned on using to feed your family.

    Wall Street Journal
    Friday, January 2, 2004
    Stephen Moore

    Take a Hike

    The Democratic Party appears to be on an irreversible course to nominate Howard Dean as its candidate for the presidency. Yet while voters in Iowa and New Hampshire may have heard a thing or two about Mr. Dean's economic policies, most Americans have not. Indeed, most voters are unaware that the former governor of Vermont has a plan to raise income taxes on every single American who pays them.

    Recently, an organization I run, the Club for Growth, began airing TV ads in Iowa and New Hampshire telling voters about the specifics of Mr. Dean's tax proposals. The Dean plan, our ad notes, would raise taxes by $2,472 a year on a typical middle-income family of four. Mr. Dean would also raise the death tax rate, the capital gains tax rate, the dividend tax rate and the payroll tax, and he would bring back the hated marriage tax penalty that President Bush abolished this year. There is hardly a tax levied at the federal level that Howard Dean would not raise.

    And although the Dean campaign has howled in protest over this ad -- and has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to rebut it with TV ads of its own (which mostly change the subject) -- what it cannot deny is that these are precisely the economically destructive changes to the tax code we would see under a Howard Dean presidency. In fact, unlike some recent presidential candidates, Mr. Dean doesn't bother to conceal his plans to raise taxes, he revels in telling America about it.

    WHAT THE DEAN TAX MEANS FOR YOU
    Current Law Dean Tax
    Capital Gains Tax 15% 20%
    Dividend Tax 15% 39.6%
    Income Tax Rate (highest) 35% 39.6%
    Income Tax Rate (Middle) 25% 28%
    Income Tax Rate (lowest) 10% 15%
    Per Child Credit $1,000 $500
    Marriage Penalty Tax Eliminated Reinstated
    Death Tax in 2010 0$ 55%

    Source: The Club for Growth


    In the ad, we maintain that Mr. Dean's economic agenda is reminiscent of such unforgettable recent Democratic presidential failures as George McGovern, Walter Mondale and Michael Dukakis. We're willing to admit that this may be a bit unfair. In fact, Messrs. McGovern, Mondale and Dukakis might have reason to complain, because none of them proposed economic policies that would tilt the Democratic Party as far to the left as Mr. Dean has.

    Mr. Dukakis, who was ridiculed by Republicans mercilessly as a tax and spender from "Taxachusetts," pledged to voters that he would raise taxes "only as a last resort." Mr. Dean promises new taxes as a first resort. And he would raise them on virtually everyone who has a job and an income tax liability -- not just on the "evil rich" Wall Street tycoon, but even on the man who shines his shoes. In fact, I recently analyzed IRS tax data released by the Treasury Department to estimate the impact of the Dean Tax on family finances. I found that Mr. Dean's plan would force roughly two million low-income working Americans -- that's roughly three times the population of the state of Delaware -- who don't pay any income taxes now, to start paying them. This is the candidate who says he's going to be the voice of the little guy in Washington.

    When it comes to taxes, Mr. Dean thinks really big. In raw numbers, the Dean Tax proposal would raise taxes on 109 million Americans by roughly $1.5 trillion over the next 10 years. This comes out to a Dean tax of about $15,440 for every family of four in the U.S. over the next decade. The Dean tax rule of thumb is that if you are in the middle class, he would roughly double your federal income tax payments.

    Let's look at real-life examples of what the Dean tax might mean for you. Under current law, a married couple with one child and a $40,000-a-year income pays income taxes of $1,503. Under the Dean tax, that family would pay $2,935 -- or just about double. For a family with two kids and an income of $80,000 a year, the extra Dean tax costs $1,780 a year. What Mr. Dean has never had to answer to in the Democratic primary, perhaps because the other candidates are too embarrassed to ask, is how a presidential contender whose campaign is dedicated to relieving the economic squeeze on working class families, believes that socking these folks with a $1,400- to $1,800-a-year tax hike will make their financial situation less stressful.

    Mr. Dean responds to these charges by countering that his plan will help restore prosperity and produce higher incomes and more jobs. But how exactly? His tax plan would be the equivalent of hitting small businessmen, who create about 70% of the jobs, over the head with a two-by-four. The highest tax rate under the Dean plan rises from 35% to 39.6%. Add on top of this perhaps the most insidious feature of the Dean tax. For the first time ever, he would eliminate the cap on payroll taxes. Henceforth, all income of more than $87,000 a year would pay a 15% payroll tax. This means the Dean tax plan raises the small-business tax rate from 38% to 55%. If you are a self-employed worker with an income of $125,000 a year, which in high-cost-of-living states like California and New York is hardly rich, Howard Dean wants to raise your taxes more than $8,000. That will create jobs?

    When President Bush cut taxes this past year, one of the most immediately visible happy results was that the dividend and capital gains tax cuts helped boost the stock market by between 10% and 15%. The after-tax rate of return on corporate profits increases with a lower capital gains and dividends tax, so stock values predictably rise. Just since the Bush tax cut, the increased valuation of the stock market has increased the net wealth of American households by more than $1 trillion, according the American Shareholders Association. Repealing those tax cuts would impel the market to surrender those higher share prices. Since half of American households now have their savings stored in stocks, this market give-back also will put a severe dent in family finances. So the Dean tax is a double whammy on households: It reduces their after-tax income and reduces their wealth.

    Of course, by reinstating the marriage penalty and bringing back to life the death tax permanently, Mr. Dean's tax proposal would add greatly to the complexity of the tax code. By raising income tax rates by roughly five percentage points on everyone and by calling for a more than doubling of the dividend tax, he sends us back toward the era of punitive double and triple taxation of saving and investment income. In many ways then, the Dean tax is "the anti-flat tax." It gives us higher tax rates and more IRS complexity, and requires several million more families to file IRS 1040 returns every year.

    If the Democrats do indeed nominate Mr. Dean and make the Dean tax the underlying economic message of their party, that would be good news for Republicans, but awful news for sound economic policy making in Washington. It will signal once and for all that the Democrats have gone off the deep end on economics and no longer believe a word of John F. Kennedy's message of 40 years ago that higher tax rates "will never produce enough revenues to balance the budget, nor enough jobs" to put Americans back to work.
     
  2. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    I see, you got destroyed in this thread so you decided to start a new one in the hopes that your ownage would go unnoticed.

    http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71299

    Sorry, chas, no dice.

    LAUGHINGSTOCK
    [​IMG]

    This is the worst run you had since the "Social Security Observations" thread....I suggest you shut it down for a while and I will call off the dogs.
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    What's the matter Sam, are you unable to refute the *fact* that Howard Dean wants to raise your taxes? Must you resort to changing the subject? I challenge you to confront these facts, as presented in the article. Can you do it?
     
  4. bnb

    bnb Member

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    With the exception of the death tax, which i know little about, and the payroll tax increase, which i disagree with,i think those proposed rates do not seem unreasonable compared to other industrialized countries. Give him props for being honest (rather than merely fantasizing) about his fiscal plan.

    That is, unless you're ok with continuing deficits, lack of funds for social programs, the military, or space exploration.

    Someone here posted that too often 'conservatives' equate good fiscal policy with short term business friendly policy. Perhaps balanced budgets wouldn't be such a bad thing?

    There will always be interests that hoot and holler about any tax burden. But someone has to pay the bills, don't they?
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    I for one am not thrilled about the idea of giving the goverment more of my money.
     
  6. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Just like you did so well in the Minority Health Report thread?
     
  7. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    After two rounds of ridiculous tax cuts and the biggest increase in military spending since World War II, we have the largest budget deficit in world history. These expenses are not going away. You can't increase expenses and cut revenue, and still expect to balance your checkbook at the end of the day.

    Any candidate who says we don't need to raise taxes (or cut the most bloated military budget in history) is lying through his teeth to get votes. Fiscal responsibility requires a reasonable tax rate and reasonable expenditures. The last three years, we have seen neither.
     
  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Revenue will not be cut as the economy rebounds. Greater economic activity means higher sales receipts, greater dividends paid, capital gains, and higher salaries. All of these are taxed. Wall Street agrees that the tax cuts have spurred record economic growth. It therefore follows that tax receipts will grow, much as economic growth grew them in the late 90's.

    This is the critical flaw in your stereotypical lunatic fringe liberal argument.
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    The "lunatic" part is typified best by which of the following facts mentioned by GreenVegan76?

    1. We have the largest deficit in the history of humanity.
    2. Military spending has enjoyed its largest increase since WWII.
    3. Taxes have been dramatically cut twice.

    If those facts are believed primarily by lunatics, you may find yourself surrounded by lunatics in November 2004.
     
  10. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    SizzleChest, I have highlighted the lunatic parts of GreenVegan's post:

    After two rounds of ridiculous tax cuts

    These expenses are not going away.

    Any candidate who says we don't need to raise taxes (or cut the most bloated military budget in history) is lying through his teeth to get votes.
     
  11. bnb

    bnb Member

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    Trader:

    Surely there is an ideal tax rate that balances growth stimulus with revenue needed to provide services. Is it possible that the original cuts were too much given the size of the deficits incurred and the 'need' for more military, security, and other spending.

    Or is lower always better? Perhaps they should be 5%?
     
  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Accepting the tax rates or economic situation of other industrialized counties is something I find unreasonable. The US has the largest and most efficient economy due in part because of the lower tax burden and greater incentive to achieve.
     
  13. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Thanks, I'll give you "ridiculous" as a biased adjective (though not "lunatic" by the standard definition).

    You may argue that the expenses will "go away," but it does not seem "lunatic" to worry that they will saddle our children and grandchildren. Seriously: please explain when the deficits will go away.

    Finally, I'll admit that GV's assessment of candidate statements is biased, but again, it's not a lunatic position.
     
  14. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Howard Dean has a plan to dramatically raise taxes on you, while George W. Bush has already instituted a plan that will force your grandchildren to pay for tax breaks to the top 1% of the US economic scale.

    Two sides of the same f*cked up coin.
     
  15. flamingmoe

    flamingmoe Member

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    yeah, the Laffer Curve theory worked wonders in the 80's after Reagan's tax-cut of '81?

    oh yeah, thats right, revenues went DOWN
     
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    So that's how we're making policy these days?

    "Uhhhh....what's France and Sweden doing? We should certainly do the same." God help us.
     
  17. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I think when we decide that taxes are high, low, right or wrong we have to have a basis for that determination.

    Spending needs would be one. But record deficits don't seem to deter some.

    So the upper base would be what others are doing. Not to be 'just like them' but to make decisions in less of a vacuum.

    I agree with many that high taxes are a disincentive to investment. And capital tends to flow to where it is less shackled -- either by regulation or tax burdens.

    The question is: what level is appropriate?

    My point is that there seems to be some upward room given what the 'competition' for capital is doing. And record deficits suggest that unless budgets are severely slashed (including the military, space exploration, foreign aid and infrastructure) additional revenue is needed. So, while i still have an inherent distrust of the efficiency of government spending, i would be willing to consider moderately higher tax.

    Unless, of course, you believe that deficits don't matter.
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]
     
  19. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Member

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    Exactly. We are a different case, for sure. I'm one who believes that our govt having a budget of 2 TRILLION bucks is utterly ridiculous. The reason why it is out of control is simple: the vote-buying entitlement schemes of the politicians, who seek to perpetuate themselves in power by taking from some and giving to others freebies in exchange for their vote.

    Well we in my estimation at the apathy stage.
     
  20. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    I hope the taxes are high enough to pay for universal health coverage.
     

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