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Howard Dean: The Candidate for Confederate Flags and Assault Weapons

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by El_Conquistador, Nov 2, 2003.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    It sickens me that Howard Dean embraces the Confederate flag in this manner. The angry, elitest, liberal faction of the Democratic party is soiling its pants over these comments. Dean's ship has sprung a leak and is taking on water at a rapid pace!

    (CNN) -- Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean sparked criticism from his rivals Saturday after invoking the Confederate flag in a defense of his views on gun control.

    "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks," the former Vermont governor said in an interview published Saturday in the Des Moines Register. "We can't beat George Bush unless we appeal to a broad cross-section of Democrats."

    It was at least the second time Dean publicly used the Confederate flag to describe Southern voters who often vote for Republicans.

    Dean previously used the flag reference during a February meeting of the Democratic National Committee.

    At that event, Dean received a rousing ovation from the crowd when he said, "White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not [Republicans], because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools too."

    All the other Democratic candidates at that time attended that session except Sen. John Kerry, of Massachusetts, who was absent for health reasons.

    Kerry and Rep. Dick Gephardt, of Missouri, both issued statements Saturday attacking Dean's recent comments.

    Gephardt, who polls show is in a close race with Dean to win January's Iowa caucuses, wrapped his criticism in patriotism.

    "I don't want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks. I will win the Democratic nomination because I will be the candidate for the guys with American flags in their pickup trucks," Gephardt's statement said.

    Kerry used his statement to illustrate his views on gun control and his support of the NAACP.

    "Howard Dean is justifying his pandering to the NRA by saying his opposition to an assault weapons ban allows him to pander to lovers of the Confederate flag," Kerry said in his statement. "It is simply unconscionable for Howard Dean to embrace the most racially divisive symbol in America. I would rather be the candidate of the NAACP than the NRA."

    Dean told the National Rifle Association in a 1992 questionnaire that he opposed restrictions on private ownership of assault weapons, and received the NRA's highest ratings when he was governor.

    Dean has said he believes gun control laws should be a state matter, a position that might be considered a liability with the liberal base of the Democratic party, which supports federal gun control measures.

    Gephardt, the former House minority leader, said Dean appears to believe "that if we sacrifice our support for reasonable gun legislation like the assault weapons ban, we will win the support of those that disagree with us on bedrock Democratic values like civil rights."

    But a Dean spokesman called the criticism "a desperate political attack on the part of Governor Dean's opponents."

    Spokesman Jay Carson said Dean was trying to explain that Democrats need to broaden their appeal to Southern men, who in recent years have voted Republican in growing numbers. Carson said Dean has been using the flag line since he started campaigning, and that his rivals misconstrued it as support for the Confederate banner.

    "He uses colorful language to describe what he means. That's all that he is doing," Carson said.

    Dean's campaign staffers fired back at Kerry in particular, accusing him of writing off Southern voters.

    Spokeswoman Trish Enright pointed to a March article in the Charlotte Observer, which quoted Kerry describing a strategy in which he could take the presidency without winning a single Southern state.
     
  2. Timing

    Timing Member

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    I would hope he clarifies exactly what he meant. If he's simply trying to appeal to the southern white voters a lot of which are good ole boys that's one thing but if he's openly embracing Confederate flags well that's a problem.
     
  3. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Jorge, does this mean you will consider supporting Dean?
     
  4. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    So, it's wrong for him to appeal to *all* Americans, not just the liberal elite?

    Give me a break.
     
  5. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    LOL

    I'm still laughing.
     
  6. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    So, I take it by the title of this thread that Trader_Jorge is in support of the assault weapons ban.

    Good for you, T_J.
     
  7. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Once again you make a faulty assumption that leads to error. The title contains no mention of my preferences. The title describes Howard Dean's position on two issues. There is no logical way to conclude that I share Dean's opinion from reading the title. Your assertion is destroyed. Moving on to my commentary in the first post, you will see that I am very critical of Dean throwing his support behind the Confederate Flag. One would then logically conclude that I disagree with Dean's stance on that issue and disagree with what Dean stands for. Your argument is revealed to be both wrong and poorly reasoned.
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    My mistake. Since I've never seen you post anything but negatively towards Dean, I assumed that posting that he's the candidate for confederate flags and assault weapons meant that you were against those things.

    My apologies.
     
  10. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    The Bush bobble head only posts negativity about anything or anyone that is not a part of the far right wing or their agenda.
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    It is probably not a good idea to openly pander to racists in your campaign, and there are plenty of people that fall between them and the liberal elite.
     
  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    GreenVegan, please understand the difference between an 'elitest' and 'the elite'. One is merely perceived, the other is tangible. Dean's mob of angry liberal supporters fall into the 'perceived' category.
     
  13. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    LOL

    That's classic.

    Because Dean dares reach into Bush's core constituency of redneck gun freaks, Republicans are crying foul. Dean didn't say he supported the Confederacy or any other nonsense like that; just that he wanted to reach an audience who normally pulls the Bush lever if they can read his name on the ballot.

    Whoops, I'm being a perceived elitist again. :rolleyes:
     
  14. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    I think that somebody needs to re-examine his definitions...An elitist is someone who either favors rule by the elite, or, check this puppy out T_J, believes that an elite exists. Therefore, by defintion, if elite is tangible, as you suggest, then ipso facto, elitists are also tangible. If you're going to be pedantic, it helps to know what you're talking about...
     
  15. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    MacBeth, please read this definition from dictionary.com

    Elitist:
    The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources. Don't ever try to correct me again, son.

    IPSO FACTO'D
     
  16. Timing

    Timing Member

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    So it's a better idea to subtlely pander to racists like Republicans do? Is that why Dean is openly pandering because it's generally understood that Republicans are the ones who pander to the racist vote and not Democrats? Dean trying to make himself electable by trying to steal some of the traditional racist vote that Republicans have in their pockets? Yeah, I agree.
     
  17. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Just for grins, what subtle pandering are you talking about here? Please be specific. I certainly hope you do not consider being against affirmative action as 'subtlely pandering to racists'.
     
  18. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Ummm, even according to your defintion, the elitist isn't percieved, but has a percpetion of others.


    But, personally, I prefer Webster's:

    e-lit-ism. n. Rule or domination by or belief in an elite.--e-lit'ist, n. I'll only correct you when you're wrong, gramps...oh, God, no, wait, I can't make that kind of time commitment.


    WHATEVER'D
     
  19. surrender

    surrender Member

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    It's quite obvious that Dean is referring to the voters from the "Solid South" voting bloc, who used to vote Democrat before the 60's.

    Also, being against the assault weapons ban is a wonderful thing, and now I'm probably voting for Dean next year.

    ZINGED
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    I can't believe that some of you guys didn't get the whole Confederate Flag thing.

    1) Obviously TJ is a dittohead. He would never vote for Dean or anyone but his neocon buds. I was just kidding.

    2) Dean is only saying that the good old boys who have confedederate flags on their pickup trucks should be voting their pocket books and voting Democratic. They shouldn't be fooled by cultural issues, like outdated racism, guns and other issues that have traditionally caused them to vote with the wealthy elite, like the Bushes, who run the GOP.

    You know, in retrospect I guess it was possible that the author of the article didn't understand either, but much more likely he was just searching for some sort of issue to attack Dean on.
     

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