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How we remember players

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by VBG, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Link to Article on Hardwood Paroxysm

    I think keeping things in context is very important. Kobe is going to be one of the greatest of all time instead of someone like Drexeler, Dominique, Vince Carter, Barkley, T-Mac, Allen Iverson and even Steve Nash.


    Basketball players are a victim of circumstance.
     
  2. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Little more evidence -


    Dirk went from non-clutch to clutch in... his SEVENTH most efficient postseason
     
  3. clos4life

    clos4life Member

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    The rings are all that matter and every NBA player knows it. That's why Dirk is considered great, why Wade is considered great and why LeDouche is the butt of every joke. And rightfully so.
     
  4. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    Uh, aggregate playoff statistics misses the whole point of clutchness, which is performance in small-sample size moments.
     
  5. dback816

    dback816 Member

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    But if you dropped 50 in the first quarter, you wouldn't need to be "clutch" in those closing seconds
     
  6. VBG

    VBG Member

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    So Dirk scoring 35 and getting 17 rebounds in game 7 against an amazing Spurs team shouldn't matter because he didn't need a game winner?

    This is more about defining a player's legacy.
     
  7. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    There are analyses and statistical models which compare the effect on winning a game between a bucket in the first quarter with buckets in the closing seconds.

    As for your example, the counterargument is that obviously 50 in the first quarter helps, but if he doesn't score at all for the rest of the game, he can still lose the game, whereas a clutch bucket can win a game all by its lonesome.
     
  8. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    I guess you place more value on statistics than I do. I place more value in contributing to winning than aggregate statistics in defining a player's legacy. See my above post for more information.
     
  9. iconoclastic

    iconoclastic Member

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    Aggregate non-advanced, multivariate regression statistics, I meant.
     
  10. VBG

    VBG Member

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    My whole argument is that you can't place everything in winning because of the fluid nature of basketball. The entire team concept.

    One transcendent player can only take his team so far. Everyone needs help in the NBA.

    Kobe will be favorably judged by history because he got to play with Prime Shaq and vice-versa.

    On the other hand, Iverson, Carter, McGrady never did and will be footnotes.
     
  11. JumpMan

    JumpMan Member
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    We remember them like that because, even though it's true that you win and lose as a TEAM, one player can be and usually is the difference between winning and losing. To me, it's that simple.
     
  12. meh

    meh Member

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    A clutch bucket is the culmination of all that you and your teammate have done up to that point. If you sucked and your teammates sucked, you'd be down by 20 entering "clutch time" and your incredible last second shot would be considered stat-padding.
     

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