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How to Make an American Job Before It's Too Late: Andy Grove

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Air Langhi, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    How to Make an American Job Before It's Too Late: Andy Grove

    By Andy Grove - Jul 1, 2010 3:00 PM CT

    Recently an acquaintance at the next table in a Palo Alto, California, restaurant introduced me to his companions: three young venture capitalists from China. They explained, with visible excitement, that they were touring promising companies in Silicon Valley. I’ve lived in the Valley a long time, and usually when I see how the region has become such a draw for global investments, I feel a little proud.

    Not this time. I left the restaurant unsettled. Something didn’t add up. Bay Area unemployment is even higher than the 9.7 percent national average. Clearly, the great Silicon Valley innovation machine hasn’t been creating many jobs of late -- unless you are counting Asia, where American technology companies have been adding jobs like mad for years.

    The underlying problem isn’t simply lower Asian costs. It’s our own misplaced faith in the power of startups to create U.S. jobs. Americans love the idea of the guys in the garage inventing something that changes the world. New York Times columnist Thomas L. Friedman recently encapsulated this view in a piece called “Start-Ups, Not Bailouts.” His argument: Let tired old companies that do commodity manufacturing die if they have to. If Washington really wants to create jobs, he wrote, it should back startups.

    Mythical Moment

    Friedman is wrong. Startups are a wonderful thing, but they cannot by themselves increase tech employment. Equally important is what comes after that mythical moment of creation in the garage, as technology goes from prototype to mass production. This is the phase where companies scale up. They work out design details, figure out how to make things affordably, build factories, and hire people by the thousands. Scaling is hard work but necessary to make innovation matter.

    The scaling process is no longer happening in the U.S. And as long as that’s the case, plowing capital into young companies that build their factories elsewhere will continue to yield a bad return in terms of American jobs.

    Scaling used to work well in Silicon Valley. Entrepreneurs came up with an invention. Investors gave them money to build their business. If the founders and their investors were lucky, the company grew and had an initial public offering, which brought in money that financed further growth.

    Intel Startup

    I am fortunate to have lived through one such example. In 1968, two well-known technologists and their investor friends anted up $3 million to start Intel Corp., making memory chips for the computer industry. From the beginning, we had to figure out how to make our chips in volume. We had to build factories; hire, train and retain employees; establish relationships with suppliers; and sort out a million other things before Intel could become a billion-dollar company. Three years later, it went public and grew to be one of the biggest technology companies in the world. By 1980, which was 10 years after our IPO, about 13,000 people worked for Intel in the U.S.

    Not far from Intel’s headquarters in Santa Clara, California, other companies developed. Tandem Computers Inc. went through a similar process, then Sun Microsystems Inc., Cisco Systems Inc., Netscape Communications Corp., and on and on. Some companies died along the way or were absorbed by others, but each survivor added to the complex technological ecosystem that came to be called Silicon Valley.

    As time passed, wages and health-care costs rose in the U.S., and China opened up. American companies discovered they could have their manufacturing and even their engineering done cheaper overseas. When they did so, margins improved. Management was happy, and so were stockholders. Growth continued, even more profitably. But the job machine began sputtering.

    U.S. Versus China

    Today, manufacturing employment in the U.S. computer industry is about 166,000 -- lower than it was before the first personal computer, the MITS Altair 2800, was assembled in 1975. Meanwhile, a very effective computer-manufacturing industry has emerged in Asia, employing about 1.5 million workers -- factory employees, engineers and managers.

    The largest of these companies is Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., also known as Foxconn. The company has grown at an astounding rate, first in Taiwan and later in China. Its revenue last year was $62 billion, larger than Apple Inc., Microsoft Corp., Dell Inc. or Intel. Foxconn employs more than 800,000 people, more than the combined worldwide head count of Apple, Dell, Microsoft, Hewlett-Packard Co., Intel and Sony Corp.

    10-to-1 Ratio

    Until a recent spate of suicides at Foxconn’s giant factory complex in Shenzhen, China, few Americans had heard of the company. But most know the products it makes: computers for Dell and HP, Nokia Oyj cell phones, Microsoft Xbox 360 consoles, Intel motherboards, and countless other familiar gadgets. Some 250,000 Foxconn employees in southern China produce Apple’s products. Apple, meanwhile, has about 25,000 employees in the U.S. -- that means for every Apple worker in the U.S. there are 10 people in China working on iMacs, iPods and iPhones. The same roughly 10-to-1 relationship holds for Dell, disk-drive maker Seagate Technology, and other U.S. tech companies.

    You could say, as many do, that shipping jobs overseas is no big deal because the high-value work -- and much of the profits -- remain in the U.S. That may well be so. But what kind of a society are we going to have if it consists of highly paid people doing high-value-added work -- and masses of unemployed?

    Since the early days of Silicon Valley, the money invested in companies has increased dramatically, only to produce fewer jobs. Simply put, the U.S. has become wildly inefficient at creating American tech jobs. We may be less aware of this growing inefficiency, however, because our history of creating jobs over the past few decades has been spectacular -- masking our greater and greater spending to create each position.

    Tragic Mistake

    Should we wait and not act on the basis of early indicators? I think that would be a tragic mistake because the only chance we have to reverse the deterioration is if we act early and decisively.

    Already the decline has been marked. It may be measured by way of a simple calculation: an estimate of the employment cost- effectiveness of a company. First, take the initial investment plus the investment during a company’s IPO. Then divide that by the number of employees working in that company 10 years later. For Intel, this worked out to be about $650 per job -- $3,600 adjusted for inflation. National Semiconductor Corp., another chip company, was even more efficient at $2,000 per job.

    Making the same calculations for a number of Silicon Valley companies shows that the cost of creating U.S. jobs grew from a few thousand dollars per position in the early years to $100,000 today. The obvious reason: Companies simply hire fewer employees as more work is done by outside contractors, usually in Asia.

    Alternative Energy

    The job-machine breakdown isn’t just in computers. Consider alternative energy, an emerging industry where there is plenty of innovation. Photovoltaics, for example, are a U.S. invention. Their use in home-energy applications was also pioneered by the U.S.

    Last year, I decided to do my bit for energy conservation and set out to equip my house with solar power. My wife and I talked with four local solar firms. As part of our due diligence, I checked where they get their photovoltaic panels -- the key part of the system. All the panels they use come from China. A Silicon Valley company sells equipment used to manufacture photo-active films. They ship close to 10 times more machines to China than to manufacturers in the U.S., and this gap is growing. Not surprisingly, U.S. employment in the making of photovoltaic films and panels is perhaps 10,000 -- just a few percent of estimated worldwide employment.

    Advanced Batteries

    There’s more at stake than exported jobs. With some technologies, both scaling and innovation take place overseas. Such is the case with advanced batteries. It has taken years and many false starts, but finally we are about to witness mass- produced electric cars and trucks. They all rely on lithium-ion batteries. What microprocessors are to computing, batteries are to electric vehicles. Unlike with microprocessors, the U.S. share of lithium-ion battery production is tiny.

    That’s a problem. A new industry needs an effective ecosystem in which technology knowhow accumulates, experience builds on experience, and close relationships develop between supplier and customer. The U.S. lost its lead in batteries 30 years ago when it stopped making consumer-electronics devices. Whoever made batteries then gained the exposure and relationships needed to learn to supply batteries for the more demanding laptop PC market, and after that, for the even more demanding automobile market. U.S. companies didn’t participate in the first phase and consequently weren’t in the running for all that followed. I doubt they will ever catch up.

    Job Creation

    Scaling isn’t easy. The investments required are much higher than in the invention phase. And funds need to be committed early, when not much is known about the potential market. Another example from Intel: The investment to build a silicon manufacturing plant in the 1970s was a few million dollars. By the early 1990s, the cost of the factories that would be able to produce the new Pentium chips in volume rose to several billion dollars. The decision to build these plants needed to be made years before we knew whether the Pentium chip would work or whether the market would be interested in it.

    Lessons we learned from previous missteps helped us. Years earlier, when Intel’s business consisted of making memory chips, we hesitated to add manufacturing capacity, not being sure about the market demand in years to come. Our Japanese competitors didn’t hesitate: They built the plants. When the demand for memory chips exploded, the Japanese roared into the U.S. market and Intel began its descent as a memory-chip supplier.

    Intel Experience

    Though steeled by that experience, I remember how afraid I was as I asked the Intel directors for authorization to spend billions of dollars for factories to make a product that didn’t exist at the time for a market we couldn’t size. Fortunately, they gave their OK even as they gulped. The bet paid off.

    My point isn’t that Intel was brilliant. The company was founded at a time when it was easier to scale domestically. For one thing, China wasn’t yet open for business. More importantly, the U.S. hadn’t yet forgotten that scaling was crucial to its economic future.

    How could the U.S. have forgotten? I believe the answer has to do with a general undervaluing of manufacturing -- the idea that as long as “knowledge work” stays in the U.S., it doesn’t matter what happens to factory jobs. It’s not just newspaper commentators who spread this idea.

    Offshore Production

    Consider this passage by Princeton University economist Alan S. Blinder: “The TV manufacturing industry really started here, and at one point employed many workers. But as TV sets became ‘just a commodity,’ their production moved offshore to locations with much lower wages. And nowadays the number of television sets manufactured in the U.S. is zero. A failure? No, a success.”

    I disagree. Not only did we lose an untold number of jobs, we broke the chain of experience that is so important in technological evolution. As happened with batteries, abandoning today’s “commodity” manufacturing can lock you out of tomorrow’s emerging industry.

    Our fundamental economic beliefs, which we have elevated from a conviction based on observation to an unquestioned truism, is that the free market is the best economic system -- the freer, the better. Our generation has seen the decisive victory of free-market principles over planned economies. So we stick with this belief, largely oblivious to emerging evidence that while free markets beat planned economies, there may be room for a modification that is even better.

    No. 1 Objective

    Such evidence stares at us from the performance of several Asian countries in the past few decades. These countries seem to understand that job creation must be the No. 1 objective of state economic policy. The government plays a strategic role in setting the priorities and arraying the forces and organization necessary to achieve this goal.

    The rapid development of the Asian economies provides numerous illustrations. In a thorough study of the industrial development of East Asia, Robert Wade of the London School of Economics found that these economies turned in precedent- shattering economic performances over the 1970s and 1980s in large part because of the effective involvement of the government in targeting the growth of manufacturing industries.

    Consider the “Golden Projects,” a series of digital initiatives driven by the Chinese government in the late 1980s and 1990s. Beijing was convinced of the importance of electronic networks -- used for transactions, communications and coordination -- in enabling job creation, particularly in the less developed parts of the country. Consequently, the Golden Projects enjoyed priority funding. In time, they contributed to the rapid development of China’s information infrastructure and the country’s economic growth.

    Job-Centric Economy

    How do we turn such Asian experience into intelligent action here and now? Long term, we need a job-centric economic theory -- and job-centric political leadership -- to guide our plans and actions. In the meantime, consider some basic thoughts from a onetime factory guy.

    Silicon Valley is a community with a strong tradition of engineering, and engineers are a peculiar breed. They are eager to solve whatever problems they encounter. If profit margins are the problem, we go to work on margins, with exquisite focus. Each company, ruggedly individualistic, does its best to expand efficiently and improve its own profitability. However, our pursuit of our individual businesses, which often involves transferring manufacturing and a great deal of engineering out of the country, has hindered our ability to bring innovations to scale at home. Without scaling, we don’t just lose jobs -- we lose our hold on new technologies. Losing the ability to scale will ultimately damage our capacity to innovate.

    Blade Didn’t Drop

    The story comes to mind of an engineer who was to be executed by guillotine. The guillotine was stuck, and custom required that if the blade didn’t drop, the condemned man was set free. Before this could happen, the engineer pointed with excitement to a rusty pulley, and told the executioner to apply some oil there. Off went his head.

    We got to our current state as a consequence of many of us taking actions focused on our own companies’ next milestones. An example: Five years ago, a friend joined a large VC firm as a partner. His responsibility was to make sure that all the startups they funded had a “China strategy,” meaning a plan to move what jobs they could to China. He was going around with an oil can, applying drops to the guillotine in case it was stuck. We should put away our oil cans. VCs should have a partner in charge of every startup’s “U.S. strategy.”

    Financial Incentives

    The first task is to rebuild our industrial commons. We should develop a system of financial incentives: Levy an extra tax on the product of offshored labor. (If the result is a trade war, treat it like other wars -- fight to win.) Keep that money separate. Deposit it in the coffers of what we might call the Scaling Bank of the U.S. and make these sums available to companies that will scale their American operations. Such a system would be a daily reminder that while pursuing our company goals, all of us in business have a responsibility to maintain the industrial base on which we depend and the society whose adaptability -- and stability -- we may have taken for granted.

    I fled Hungary as a young man in 1956 to come to the U.S. Growing up in the Soviet bloc, I witnessed first-hand the perils of both government overreach and a stratified population. Most Americans probably aren’t aware that there was a time in this country when tanks and cavalry were massed on Pennsylvania Avenue to chase away the unemployed. It was 1932; thousands of jobless veterans were demonstrating outside the White House. Soldiers with fixed bayonets and live ammunition moved in on them, and herded them away from the White House. In America! Unemployment is corrosive. If what I’m suggesting sounds protectionist, so be it.

    Choice Is Simple

    Every day, that Palo Alto restaurant where I met the Chinese venture capitalists is full of technology executives and entrepreneurs. Many of them are my friends. I understand the technological challenges they face, along with the financial pressure they are under from directors and shareholders. Can we expect them to take on yet another assignment, to work on behalf of a loosely defined community of companies, employees, and employees yet to be hired? To do so is undoubtedly naive. Yet the imperative for change is real and the choice is simple. If we want to remain a leading economy, we change on our own, or change will continue to be forced upon us.

    (Andy Grove, senior adviser to Intel, was the company’s chief executive officer or chairman from 1987 until 2005. The opinions expressed, featured in the July 5 issue of Bloomberg Businessweek, are his own.)



    He used to be CEO of intel. Obama needs to make this no1 priority to create jobs and use all his power to do that. Not muslims, not illegal immigrants. The fact that countries like japan, Australia, Germany etc are kicking our asses in this department really hurt.
     
    #1 Air Langhi, Sep 12, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2010
  2. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    Invisible post?
     
  3. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

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  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Speaking of Foxconn, I just read the Businessweek article on its Founder/CEO, Terry Guo. When it claims that, ""Steve Jobs' achievements wouldn't be possible without Terry," that speaks volumes.

    So Mr. Grove and Mr. Gates wants more government intervention and government planning in the business sector? Did Obama's Socialist Gangster Goon Squads brainwash them?

    Maybe the mere accusation will force Team Obama to back off and promise no job creation strategy whatsoever. Tax breaks are much sexier and lets the markets do its thing!
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The article shows that we can trust the corporate elite to ship jobs overseas to maximize their profits. Now the market fundies believe that the invisible hand will some how take care of this. Sadly this does not work to provide jobs for the majority.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    A good economics paper I read a few years ago used some empirical research to highlight the fact that, in the globalized era, the old adage of "What's good for GM is good for America" no longer rings true, but that policymakers (and many of the dunderheaded masses) still tend to believe that it's true when it's really not. That's why extremist groups like the club for growth and the chamber of commerce are able to hoodwink people into voting their jobs out of existence.
     
  7. glynch

    glynch Member

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    An incredibly important article. I wonder if this is the type of thing both the left and right could agree on? Why not have good jobs in the US for all and not just for the elite?

    On a similar scale has anyone noticed how you can buy new
    clothes ridiculously cheap in the US if you don't mind having the latest style or brand? Turns out women in Bangladesh make on the order of 20c/hr making clothes. http://www.truth-out.org/dhaka-fastest-growing-megacity-world63081

    The article shows that we can trust the corporate elite to ship jobs overseas to maximize their profits. Now the market fundies believe that the invisible hand will some how take care of this. Sadly this does not work to provide jobs for the majority. How long can we afford this unworkable ideoogy.
     
  8. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    what can you do? if laptops, Iphones, and HD TVs were produced in the US, could we afford them. and if people couldn't afford them, who would that benefit?
     
  9. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    From that article I mentioned:

    Gou has plans to capitalize on the changes he has wrought. Perhaps most intriguing is his plan to move additional production to the U.S. The company currently employs about 1,000 workers in a Houston plant that makes specialized high-end servers for corporate clients the company declined to disclose, and Gou envisions a fully automated plant to produce components within five years. "If I can automate in the U.S.A. and ship to China, cost-wise it can still be competitive," he says. "But I worry America has too many lawyers. I don't want to spend time having people sue me every day."


    So we can afford them, but we'll have to rethink how business is handled throughout the whole process...Give and take.
     
  10. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Sure we'll be able to afford them. If those manufacturing jobs were in the US, our people would actually be employed.
     
  11. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    and then how many people in China could afford them? our companies also have to sell overseas
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    They'll enjoy their Ifones and Imacks pretty nicely....


    I seriously doubt China will lose its manufacturing advantages. Ours, otoh, should not be a foregone conclusion.
     
  13. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Sitting at a workbench 60 hours a week assembling circuit boards is a scarier version of hell than Dante's inferno.

    If we want to strike back, we should start a massive "go to the moon" type program to develop and manufacture robots that will replace slave-like labor. When our factory workers never sleep, never get sick and never ask for a raise the worker bee economies will fold.
     
    #13 Dubious, Sep 13, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  14. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Free trade is lunacy. There's no such thing. All it does it lower everyone's quality of life to the lowest common denominator.

    It's a pity that both parties have sold out working class, but no one should be surprised. Politicians that turn their backs on the poor eventually turn their backs on everyone.
     
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I, a capitalist business-owner, believe we need to penalize companies that ship jobs across our borders. Since I am not an economist, I'll lay out only the broad strokes because there is so much to be considered. For example, Mexico and Canada might be considered special cases since they are border nations.

    I have long grieved over our manufacturing base moving out of the U.S., leaving us as a service economy. The service industry is a solid, profitable, job-generating segment of the economy, but it is powerful only when coupled with a manufacturing segment because the latter churns money three or four times more often than a service company.

    My business is purely service-based as a middle man (match-maker and financier) between clients and transportation companies. Money is churned only thrice -- when I get paid, when I pay the contracted company, and when the contracted company pays its employee. By contrast, a manufacturer churns money when they pay for raw products, pay their employees, when they pay me, when they sell their product, when their buyer installs the product and when the installers etc. get paid. I know I'm missing some "churns" but I hope you get the point.

    My point is that only the raw product may have come from outside our borders -- the rest is in jobs and money for our economy. When a service or manufacturing job is done overseas, the money churns there. I realize some companies here will be hurt initially, but true capitalists can always find a better way to build a mousetrap. ;)
     
  16. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    A few posts in this thread made me think of this section of an old rap from GSH:

    "What has happened is that in the last 20 years, America has changed from a producer to a consumer. And all consumers know that when the producer names the tune…the consumer has got to dance. That’s the way it is."

    "We used to be a producer – very inflexible at that, and now we are consumers and, finding it difficult to understand. Natural resources and minerals will change your world. The Arabs used to be in the 3rd World. They have bought the 2nd World and put a firm down payment on the 1st one. Controlling your resources we will control your world."

    "This country has been surprised by the way the world looks now. They don’t know if they want to be Matt Dillon or Bob Dylan. They don’t know if they want to be diplomats or continue the same policy - of nuclear nightmare diplomacy."

    "John Foster Dulles ain’t nothing but the name of an airport now."

    Gil Scott Heron

    And btw thumbs, I agree with you about keeping jobs here, though I find it odd you making a regulatory argument.
     
  17. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I'm not opposed to regulation. I'm not even opposed to bureaucracy. Unfortunately, we generally go overboard on both and never know when to say "when," that is, "enough."

    IMO, however, the government needs to provide retention incentives coupled with strong disincentives to export manufacturing jobs as well as tech-based service jobs without creating another empire-building department of keeping jobs at home.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    I think a simple solution is to give companies a small tax credit for every worker employed inside the US. Efficiency dictates that a company should replace an employee with a machine or a foreign employee if the latter is cheaper. But society dictates that we, as a country, benefit by having our population employed. So government should simply make employment a little bit cheaper - everyone benefits. The government gets more tax revenues by having people employed (offsetting the costs of the credit). The company gets labor cheaper. The employee gets a job. And society gets an extra consumer, which spurs economic growth.

    Coming up with the right amount of a tax credit is a bit more complicated, but I'd think there are ways to make it work.
     
  19. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    is it just labor costs, what does a company have to provide in benefits (which is a labor cost) in China?
     
  20. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Pgabriel, I guess you have drunk the kool-aid.

    If people were paid more they could buy them.

    Try googling Henry Ford and high wages or some such. He paid his workers better so they could afford to buy his cars. This set in motion a similar idea for other industrialists.

    It is true if we have a small elite group making great wages, buying things made by workers at less than $1/hr it is good for this elite. Similarly for srvices if you are in the elite, it is great to have cheap yard men and charming waiters with masters degrees in French Literature to help you out in a French restaurant but....
     

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