I'm sure other teams have noticed him, and I'd take him over any of the Knicks' point guards, any of the Pistons' point guards, Celtics' point guards. He's worth quite a bit, and I have a feeling we're gonna have to REALLY reward him coz other teams will probably offer the 4.5mill exception that we won't have. So how much do we give him? ------------------
The wonders of the CBA (not the Continental Basketball Association). Because Mooch has been with us 2 years, we can offer him an early bird deal. That means we can pay him a little above the average salary (the 4.5 mill exception you're referring to, likely will be closer to 4 mill). Teams would have to give him CAP SPACE, the kind they could use on Webber, and around 5 million of it, if they want to get the Rockets' 2nd string PG. This means, unless someone gets incredibly stupid, and offers a 27 year old former CBAer with about a year and a half NBA experience, their capspace (the only teams that could even do it would be Clippers, Bulls, maybe Sacramento, and those types) we'll be able to have the highest offer to him, and I'm guessing this is where Mooch wants to be. The best thing about Mooch, is because he's playing for the minimum, unsigned he's a paltry 0.5 mill. We can make all of our offseason moves, and then sign him. I have no worries about our chances to resign him. ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
I would definitely give Mooch something like 2 to 2.2 million dollars. I know people say that that is a lot of money for a backup PG, but if Francis is hurt and has to sit for a little bit, Mooch has shown he is capable of stepping in and putting up big numbers. He also gives the Rockets great depth in the backcourt. Definitely Mooch is worth it. ------------------ No sleep and no trade info make RocksMillenium something, something!
I say give Mooch 1/3 to 1/2 of whatever we are going to give Steve when his current contract expires... That value might be crap, I really am not a cap expert. ------------------ "Of course, everything looks bad if you remember it!" Homer Simpson
Stevie will be making over $12m when he signs his first Bird Exception with us. Obviously, we cannot give Moochie more than Mobley. All moochie needs is a long contract to provide insurance. He won't get a 6-7 yr contract from any other teams. He'll settle for $15m over 6 yrs, which is 1/2 of what Mobley makes. that's about right, imo. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 30, 2001).]
i hope the rockets aren't going to make the dumb mistake again of giving long-term contracts to role players (Maloney)...2 or 3 years but not 6. ------------------
I would be very hesitant about giving a back-up point guard a long-term deal based on one season's performance. We did that with Matt Maloney and it totally backfired on us. Moreover, I don't think that Mooch is that good. IMHO he is just another ball hog who happens to have a big fro. I think that the Rockets should look for a backup point guard who looks to pass first and shoot second -- not like Mooch who is more interested in dribbling the ball around and driving than passing. ------------------ The Body Beautiful
we are long term going to be a 3 guard team. Even after we get Shareef, we will go small often. We need to have a starter quality PG on the bench. imo, moochie can find a starting position in the NBA. The difference between him and Maloney is Maloney never could dribble. Moochie is arguably our best dribbler (definitely best in the open court), and he loves to pass first, shoot second....albeit whatever tod the bod was trying to say. It is not like moochie is going to suddenly forget how to dribble. The guy is fearless and ... and ... and ... a clutch shooter, with Avery's ability to hit a scoop shot in the lane. I want him to be Francis's backup as long as Steve is here. If we can lock him up for 6 years at below market for a starter-quality PG, we could always trade him...no sweat. It is not like Avery Johnson has anything on Moochie. Being an average starter at the PG position in the league is about being fearless and being the best dribbler on the team. That's exactly what we have here. We have a starter on the bench. Lock him up! it's amazing how Mobley gets no respect from some of you (he'll never be an all-star) and now this complete lack of seeing starter quality in moochie from Tod. Does a player's draft position really lock you up in some type of stereotyping. Moochie can start in the NBA. lock him up! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited January 30, 2001).]
Look at the crap that heypartner has to post just so you guys will read about the here and now. Pathetic.
like tod the bod said (love your name btw), I don't think he's proven yet to sign him to a long term deal of any kind...a few games out of the year starting doesn't mean much...the way I approach it is, you sign your stars to long term contracts and sign backup players that are easier to replace to a 1-3 year contract max. What if there's a better point guard we draft in the next 6 years in the second round? Maloney also showed his starter quality a few years ago when we played utah in the playoffs remember? ------------------
Dude, where did you get this info? The only time I have seen Mooch hog the ball is when an ISO play is called for him, which is not often, and can be argued that he is not hogging, since he is only doing what was assigned. Mooch's asists per game is something like 3.68, but if you were to look at it more closely, that is in 20 minutes... if you were to extend that out into Francis or Mobley minutes, that is a very productive back-up point guard. In fact, my main knock on Mooch is that sometimes, when he gets by his man with that fabulous cross-over of his, he opts to make a pass when he had an open layup, or almost open. Mooch has fewer shots than Kenny Thomas. Do you think that Kenny Thomas is a ball hog? ------------------ "Of course, everything looks bad if you remember it!" Homer Simpson [This message has been edited by RunninRaven (edited January 30, 2001).]
no i don't! Not the way I measure PGs, he didn't. Don't compare this to Maloney and his sprinkled, hot shooting nights...Maloney on his *best* night could not run our new offense. Comparing Moochie's situation to Avery Johnson is more accurate. Would you sign Avery to a longterm for under market, if he was Moochie's age. Note, my point is getting him for under market, long term. My other point is that the PG position is *this* team's most important position. Maloney was a dime a dozen shooter. Do you realize a $12m at 6yrs starts a little over paying him the $1m exception, and grows no faster than the salary cap. He is worth $1.5m now, and the rate increase is a wash vs the salary cap's natural increase.
Right on HP. Locking up Moochie is a vital part of the Rockets offseason and a 6 yr deal in the vicinity of $12-15 mil for the duration of the contract is NOT out of line as the Maloney contract was. Maloney never found his role on this team. While he had a few good showings against the T-Wolves and Jazz a few years back, he was highly inconsistent and was very undeserving of the contract he received. Moochie understands his role and performs game in and game out. As HP said, he is arguably the best ball handler on the team and his crossover speaks for itself. He reminds me alot of Stoudamire when he first came into the league. Moochie is the PG the Rockets needed 4-5 years ago. We are very fortunate to have him backing up Francis. Keeping him in a Rockets uni for the long term is a must. ------------------ "Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps." -- Tiger Woods
I agree with HP. Maloney was a PG who could only function in a very specific offense... and only then when his shot was on. When he wasn't shooting well, he wasn't helpful. While admittedly players have off-nights in respect to their ball-handling, it's still a more consistent factor. Moochie will be a good ballhandler for years to come, and we should take advantage of this. Put him in the right system, and I could see him getting 8 assists per game. I still think he's a better PURE POINT GUARD right NOW than Francis. So sure, give him 3-4 million per year for 4-6 years. Just give him the deal AFTER we sign any free agents. It's not like we'll have cap room for a long time this year, people. Get it: this is our shot. After we get our free agent, it'll be time for us to consolodate our position and gear for a run. Moochie, from that perspective, is an excellent choice. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001. [This message has been edited by haven (edited January 30, 2001).]
What games are you guys watching? I think that I am going to have to sit there with a stop watch to show you how much Moochie dribbles the ball. This team needs to have more ball movement through passing and not through senseless dribbling. ------------------ The Body Beautiful
I kind of see your point, obviously they are different type players when comparing the two. And 2 million isn't that much when you think about it. But, my point is why would you want to sign anybody long term, if they haven't proven Anything for you yet? (ahem Cato, Maloney, etc) so you really think his value is going to go sky high in a few years since you are wanting to sign him to a "cheap" longterm deal? I don't think he's hard to replace at all...he's reached his limits already when it comes to potential...no, no one's going to grab him away from us if that's what you are scared of...can't believe you guys are calling him a pure point guard...he's that type that everytime he gets into the game, he really gets the team involved My point is you shouldn't sign backup role players with limited potential longterm, thats all I'm saying...why not short term? afraid that he'll leave for more money? ------------------
look at the last several championship years..did you see any similarities? Notice that on those squad, role players constantly change while superstars on that squad remained the same. This is telling you that on a winning team in the long run, role players like Mooch are very replacable and the only people who you should be signing long-term (6 years or more) are your <strong>superstars</strong>... [This message has been edited by ChenZhen (edited January 30, 2001).]
