How Much Cap Space Will The Rockets Have?

Who is this Bill guy? and what is he smoking?

 

Obi Wan,

Unless they start making some serious trades, the Rockets will NOT be under the salary cap next year. If we are, it will be only just and certainly not enough to pay someone like Duncan.

Currently the Rockets payroll is around $50 million, although its hard to say exactly because the details of Hakeem's contract are somewhat confidential. Contracts ending next year are Barkley ($9MM), Massenburg ($900,000), Hamilton ($350,000) and Mobley ($287,500). Everyone else is still on the docket, including a big payrise for Cato and re-signing Mobley which could prove expensive).

Post the contact details for "Bill the Rocket" guy so I can either see his backup or set him straight.

Even if we had $8million in cap space do you think Duncan would settle for that?? He's a $15MM man.

 

Disregard money for a minute, and ask yourself, why would Duncan want to stay? In two-three years, he'll be the only one on that team. Will they have to "tank" it again to be lucky enough to get the first pick? However, if he comes here, he knows that him, Francis, Anderson, Cato could be a force for 10 years.

Pinch me.

------------------
Is it any coincidence that we are the only team mentioned in the national anthem?

I didn't think so!

 

Rocketman-
I think you may give us too much credit. Yeah I'm sure Duncan would enjoy playing with Francis, but I don't think anyone gets too excited about playing w/ Anderson or Cato. They are both fine role players, but there are players like these guys on every roster. I like both of these guys, especially Cato's potential, but honestly noone would be excited about playing along side them, IMO.
Duncan will leave or stay based on 2 things (as stated above) money and/or winning. The Spurs can probably give him the most money. However I don't think anyone would consider us a front runner in the Duncan sweepstakes. Many other teams have a good nucleous of young players (Lakers, Kings, Phoenix, etc) who may be able to free up cap room if Duncan was avaialable, or arrange a sign & trade to give Duncan more money and give the Spurs something in return.
In addition the Spurs will have some cap room after the Admiral retires.
I really do believe Duncan is one of the top, if not the top, player in the league, but to assume he would leave (which may happen) and come to Houston (smaller chance) is kind of pushing it.
I would love to see him here, but I think it is more of a wish than a possibility. I would love to see it happen, just don't think it will.

 

where is this guy's website?

 

I guess I should have phrased my reply better.

In no way am I saying that we will get Duncan, miracles don't happen all the time (Francis).

My listing of those players was to show that we already have a superstar PG with good role players. In no way was I trying to state that Mobley, Anderson, and Cato were superstars that players like Duncan are dying to play with. I just personally believe that the starting lineup mentioned has a perfect mix of superstars and role players.

A lineup that will unfortunately probably never happen.

 

Even if we had $8million in cap space do you think Duncan would settle for that?? He's a $15MM man.

davo, since Duncan has only been in the league 3 years, the most he can get is $9M/year. That being said, there's still no way that we can sign him next year.

 

Obi-Wan Kenobi,

I've found you can't rely on any numbers, so I've taking the CBA and capology on as a research project. I've made several friends along the way who've been doing for much longer than I have. Here is the consensus for next year:

Surprisingly, Bill could be right, but it involves a trade that is distasteful to many on this board.

<ol type="1">
[*]Dabo is wrong...Our salary will be about $42m next year even factoring in raises for TMass/Mobley (note: Mobley is capped at Shandon's salary of the middle class exception; others with cap room can pay more for him, but we don't have cap room).
[*]aelliot is correct. Duncan and Hill are capped at $9m. Which incidentally, is the extension Van Horn signed in August...isn't that justice?
[*]The league cap will be about $37-38 pending the BRI numbers that come out in the summer.
[*]Maloney and Maclean being picked up and signed through next year can gain us back their minimum salaries which is about $1.5m (I don't recall MacLeans yrs in service).
[*]An Hakeem buyout is not an option, plus the buyout amount counts towards the cap anyhow.
[*]The only way to reduce significant amounts is to trade big, long contracts for veteran last year contracts then renounce that vet this summer (e.g. Kendall Gill)
[/list=a]

So, who has a big contract next year that is good trade bait. Only Cato in my book. (Please lets not get into a Cato off-topic discussion, I'm just answering the threads question.) If you package Cato's $5.333 starting next year, with Walt's $5m then trade for a vet in their last contract year and renounce the vet:

That is $10.333m off salary.
Plus, $1.5 for Maloney/Maclean
Plus a possibilty trade/renounce for Bullard adds another $2m

for $13.33m off the salary. Putting us at $29m and the magical $9m under the cap to pay the maximum salary to a 0-6yr vet free agent.

This is accurate to my best effort, and several other people. This is it people. Bill is right, but it requires trading Cato. Otherwise, the best you're going to do is a mid-range free agent and likely nothing.


[This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 29, 1999).]

 

Duncan will stay a Spur and Popavich will do everything in his power to keep him there. By the way, I don't think Pops is a great coach. He is a lucky guy to have some really good veterans and a phenom like Duncan. Rudy T would manage quite well with the Spurs but Popavich managing the Rockets? Scary to think what our record would be today with Pops at the helm. YIKES!!!

As much as I dislike the Lakers, they have to be the favorite for many reasons. I won't say Phil Jackson is a great coach but man he must be a Jedi Knight the way he gets players to buy his Zen Crap. Whatever the case may be, he has this whole team buying it. Phil Jackson doesn't need to use a triangle offense and many times I think he does it for psychological warfare against other teams. If Rudy can just use some of that Jedi Mind tricks on our players and call his offense something to psyche out our opponents, maybe things would be different.
Or maybe use some Jedi Mind tricks to being players to Houston-like Duncan.

 

Rudy: You will be a Rocket, you will play ball for us.

Duncan: I will be a Rocket, I will play ball for you.

Ah, if only it were that easy, but Rudy cannot apply stinking jedi mind tricks.

 

Oh yeah, heypartner is right. I've checked on this capp crap as well, and his analysis, while it's hard to be exact cuz ALL the details aren't out there, is pretty much rite on.

NO CAPP ROOM.

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Crisco melts in your mouth, not in your hands.

 

LOL, guys! Who really would care if we lost Cato but picked up Tim Duncan.

There is an Obi-Wan Kenobi from the Portland forum, and I wonder if this guy is one and the same. He could just be starting a cruel rumor/joke on us with this talk about Tim Duncan. Anyone else heard that Tim Duncan said he would like to come here? I sure have not.

To get Duncan and keep Francis? Too good to be true but who knows. I think Les Alexander would do it in a heartbeat cus he loves a winning team.

 

Ask yourself why would another team, that would be in position to renounce a high-priced veteran, trade for Williams and Cato when they could just get Duncan themselves? Even if the other team was listening to Houston, the package would more likely be Cato, Rogers, Thomas and the 2000 draft choice.

Veterans with expiring contracts:

Miller
T Hardaway
Gill
Mason
Ferry
M Jackson
Rice
Rider
Kukoc
Smits
Hill

Sure there are some lower priced expiring contracts, but not enough $$$ to matter.

Why would any team help the Rockets get into position to get a quality free agent?

Lets use the Pacers as an example. They have several contracts expiring. If they were able to do some salary cap magic to afford Duncan, why would they want Cato and other Rockets instead?

Go beyond the numbers and think of deals that make sense for both teams.

Mango

 

I heard Michael Murphy on the radio the other day and he said that the Rockets are capped out like you'll are saying.

Also Murphy said the latest rumor on Duncan is he will sign a short term contract with San Antonio in order to assess their future. Now the real question to me is if we do not pull off a major miracle this year then are we going to be lucky enough for him to sign maybe a one year deal and snatch him up the year Hakeem retires? We can only hope so.

 

Mango,

you are missing the point. Cato is only a $2.0m player right now. His extension contract doesn't go into effect til next year. There are a few opportunities out there to match Walt's current $4m with Cato's current $2m to land a useless vet being paid $5-6m in his final year (again, Kendall Gill)

These teams aren't helping us...we are helping them by giving them essentailly a belated sign-n-trade for Cato....am I the only person on this board that grasps that!!??

 

Please, guys, keep something in mind- especially those of us who have become accustomed to huge blockbuster trades every single offseason.

We already have several superstars to pay in the very near future: Francis, Mobley, and Anderson. Thank God Cato is already taken care of. Now, before you retort how Mobley is a questionable superstar and Anderson is a great role player, let me say in advance I understand all that, but if they are staying they are going to get some major buck$.
First off, Francis is staying and he gets maximum. Period. I think that's obvious to everyone here. Mobley could command some serious money this summer, no question. No, not max, but a lot. It's annoying to have a go-to isolation guy shoot such low %, but the fact is he's special. Trade rumors will come up near all-star break, but my opinion is Rudy keeps him with his bud Francis. But that's another thread. Now Shandon. He bviously hasn't shown he deserves a huge contract, but he took a MUCH lower salary to come play for the Rocks, and definitely is losing a lot more games than he would if he stayed in Utah. It's obvious that there is a gentleman's agreement that he will see a nice payday down the stretch for his sacrifice, and there is no qestion Les will keep to that. How much? It's hard to guess, but Les will keep his end of the bargain, not only because he is loyal but also because all FA's would avoid Houston if we dissed Shandon like that. Personally, even if he's overpaid, I would be happy to keep him because he is a true roleplayer who plays great D and doesn't always have to shoot the rock, but again, that's another thread.

Everyone keeps planning for what we'll do with our cap space in the future. Hey, guess what:
THE FUTURE IS ALREADY HERE.
Our backcourt is playing for peanuts. That will not be the case for long.
The future is here. Look at this incredible young team we have. How long have Golden State and the Clips been trying to put together talent like this with top draft picks they couldn't keep? Stop looking outside Houston for the future- we've got talent. Major talent. And it will cost.

I admit it- I've become spoiled by all the incredible blockbuster trades we've had every season. We're spoiled- we can talk and talk about insane, huge trade rumors because here in Houston they actually come true.
But things are different now. Since the sweep in 95 the Rocks have done everything, and I mean everything, to find the personnell that would put them back in the championship race. It didn't work. The dreams to make One More Last Run with Hakeem are expired. Rebuilding has begun. There is no longer some magic piece we could plug in to this team to make it a champion. We have some greatness- future greatness. potential greatness. Doing anything, everything we possibly can to get the best FA possible to make a championship team is over.

I would like to reiterate something that Almu posted eloquently earlier. Try to wean yourself off the addiction to huge trades. Be more satisfied with the team- we are no longer one trade away from a championship, so stop looking for it. We have some awesome young personnell here that could gel to make a great team. Not a good one, a great one. But it will take time, and lots of it. The Jazz did far more with much less talent with a game plan that everyone knew and stuck to and executed perfectly year after year. Here's a plan to reduce turnovers: keep the same roster for more than two years. Let these young studs mature, master their games, and master the new plays they have been given. Let them learn to trust one another and form on-court relationships. Sure, we will need another acquisition or two, and they will no doubt happen; Les and Rudy have proven they aren't afraid to pull the trigger. But it's time to realize our future cap money is spoken for; we have to pay for our talent someday. We can't always acquire one of the league's top players every damn season.

Let's keep our boys for a while, pay them, and see what we get when they've gelled for a few years.

 

Nolen,

points well taken in talent...but in capology Mobley, Francis and Anderson are currently locked up and predictable in what we can pay them.

I reported the numbers. We need not save any more cap room to pay those 3...they will be larry bird exceptions when we need to consider significantly increases in salary to them.

your points do not address salary cap numbers...i'm sorry.

 

Currently, the Rockets won't have any cap room next summer. That's the main reason for acquiring Kendall Gill. His $5 M salary slot would be removed when the Rockets renounce him freeing up some room.

Talk of Tim Duncan signing a short term contract with the Spurs means he would have to sign a 4 year deal with the Spurs. He needs to be in the league for 7 years in order to qualify for the 7 - 9 year veterans slot which can earn $11 M in the first year of a new contract. That's not exactly a short term deal and the Spurs will probably begin losing way before that deal is up.

That's why there has been talk of Grant Hill signing a one year deal with Detroit in order to qualify for the $11 M starting salary in 2001.

------------------
Kris Gardner,
Houston Roundball Review
www.DoTheReview.com

 

heypartner,

Like you, I also took it upon myself to study the new CBA and the Rockets Salary situation. Your first point, which says

"Dabo is wrong...Our salary will be about $42m next year....". How exactly am I wrong (assuming dabo is davo, considering the b is so close to the v on the keyboard )

I said the rockets salary THIS year was around $50MM. Following is my breakdown of salarys for NEXT year.

Mobley: $2.2MM (assumed mid level exc.)
Bullard: $2.02MM (final year of contract)
Anderson $2.2MM (2nd of 3 year deal)
Drew: $1.2MM (2nd of 3 year deal)
Rogers: $2.6MM (4th of 5 year deal)
Williams: $4.0MM (4th of 5 year deal)
Francis: $3.5MM (2nd of 4 year deal)
Thomas: $1.05MM (2nd of 3 year deal)
Olajuwan $17MM (final year)
Cato: $5.3MM (1st of many years)
Maloney: $2.2MM (still many to go)
1st round pick: $1 to $3.5MM

This totals approximately $45MM, and that relies on us renouncing any free agents except Mobley. Some of the contract values have been averaged, so they are not exact (if anything, the later years in contracts are much higher). Also bear in mind that there were rumours about buying out Maloney's contract next year which balloon his salary next year. It also does not include any money for Maclean, Augmon, Shaw or Gray, as I'm not sure when their existing contracts expire.

Hence, doing a trade/renounce for Cato AND Williams, which would remove around $9MM WOULD NOT put us in the "big" free agent market - it would only take us down to $36MM - and the salary cap is expected to be $37MM next year. It WOULD be possible if those two players were involved in a sign & trade deal next year with Duncan/Hill, as the salaries would match. Further more, a sign & trade deal could include our first round draft pick next year, which would free up another $1MM-$3MM(depending on draft seed) in cap room.

I'm not saying that doing trade/renounce deals cannot free up enough cap space to allow us to go after banner free agents, but its going to have to include a lot more than just Cato and Williams.

For the record- Bill the Rocket Guy was not correct. He simply stated that "with Barkley gone, the rockets will be $3MM-$4MM under the cap, which, according to me, is incorrect.

By no means am I saying that my numbers are 100% - if you have better info or can enlighten me, share!!


[This message has been edited by davo (edited December 30, 1999).]