How hard is Chicago kicking themselves in the butt?

Darius Miles and Jonathen Bender could turn out even better believe it or not

so could lamar odom

right now he proly is the best but in the future that may not be the case

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--TEX

 

Drew is probably a better choice as a starter, while Moochie is a better choice for a bench player.

Also, Drew is better suited for the triangle offense.

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Actually the age old argument (?) is that you start your team with a post player, not a guard. Basically the reason Olajuwon and Bowie were selected ahead of Jordan.

My memory isn't that great but I don't remember anyone dogging the Rockets for taking Olajuwon over Jordan. Especially when the Rockets were in the Finals in '86 while the Bulls were stinkin it up.

And I'll go way out on a short limb to say Francis will not even be in the top 10 best players in the NBA this season much less the best. A little reality here please.

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"Somebody DO something out there." -Bill Walton

 

I'm thinking they aren't too upset they have Elton Brand.

If they're kicking their butt over anything it's their inability to get the FA's to properly surround Elton.

Brand is on the same level as Francis as a player and probably will be throughout their careers. They both look to be stars for many years.

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[This message has been edited by Hobbs (edited October 08, 2000).]

 

um no elton is no where near francis' level and will never be and yes francis will be in the top ten players nextyear.

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How do you figure that Brand isn't on the same level as Francis as a player? Is it because Brand isn't as flashy? He's still a damn good baller!! Have you ever seen him play?
Hey, I like Francis better too, but that doesn't mean that I put my blinkers on and pretend that every other player in the league is useless!

As for Francis being top 10.... oh my....



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I liked the responses in this forum so much that I won't even bother responding point for point to the original post.

Suffice to say I think Francis has the natural athletic ability and innner drive to be a top ten player in this league, but he isn't there yet. And Brand does too. I think Francis is closer to being "finished", that is, having acquired the skills and talents that he will have across the span of his career. He just has to gain experience in using them. Brand is still learning...this will be his first season where he has moves to the hole with his left hand, the first season where he will get to display some real defensive footwork, the first season where he will have to pass out of the double team. It's too early to call one a better selection than the other because neither has peaked.

On Fizer...had there been a T-Mac, or a Vince, or an Odom on the board when we drafted, we would have selected them ahead of Fizer. Plain and Simple. If that guy from Maryland had come out we'd have selected him at number 4 or Miles if the Clippers didn't. But the best small forward out there wasn't in the class of the player we had to pass up to get him, so we left him on the board. We picked the best available talent on the board.

Oh...and and Brand didn't come to play at the end of the season...he played hard throughout the whole season. Everyone raved about how he never hit the rookie 'wall'.

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and neither did stevie

 

and neither did stevie

 

sorry bout that

 

You can't count and you don't know basketball either...


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In the same way we are kicking ourselves for passing on MJ for Dream?

I don't think Chicago is kicking themselves yet. Teams sometime don't draft on skills or potwential but needs and maturity. Yes Francis has more skills and probably a bigger upside. But Brand is a post player and there are still many of us who believe a good big man is better than a good little man. Also Brand is a true professional already, IMO. Stevie although he is a great player still does some immature things (bashing of Canada, saying if he didn't lead the league in assists that somethings wrong). Now I am not bashing Francis just the fact that Brand is much lower maintenance at his point in their careers.

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TB-Cain:

Do you realize that the Rockets were significantly better than the Bulls, and that they had a winning record (or even) after the all-star break, and that this is when Francis numbers were at their best? Do you realize that Francis was competing against better competition?

Do you realize that the Rockets were fine on offense? Scoring wasn't the problem... stopping the other team was an issue.

There was a MONSTROUS difference between the Rockets and Bulls.

Do you realize that the Rocket's ANNIHILATED the Bulls when they played each other?

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Shandon Anderson rocks.
The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.

[This message has been edited by haven (edited October 10, 2000).]

 

All Wrong.

1. Brand was the centerpiece of the offense--and he was double and triple teamed all of last season for it. In addition, he had some of his best games against the best in the West. Ask CWebb if he thinks Elton is a joke. Then Malone. Then Shaq. Take a look at the box scores when you get a chance. They tell the real story.

2. It's harder to find a good PG than it is a good PF? In what league? Bah. If that were the case Dallas wouldn't have creamed themselves over L8ner, and the Lakers wouldn't have gone down to the wire in trying to find one. It's curious that they arn't so concerned about PG play (and neither were the championship Bulls, the champion spurs had a good, not great pg, the Knicks are not sweating the position...and on and on) but were about the big man. Believe it if you want...but you are in the minority on that one.

3. You really have it backwards. It's big men who traditionally take longer to get used to the league, not guards. But I know...you're only swapping it around to make your argument---not sense.

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1. We can argue about this point all day. I'm still going to insist that teams don't shut down crappy teams as much as they could. Brand's game also translates well to being double teamed, because of his long-arms. You can't tell me it didn't make a difference that he got to play easy competition more often. Players on bad teams have better #'s than they ordinarily would, unless they're complimentary players. I don't see how this can be denied.

2. Why don't you look at the #'s of the top 15 PF's in the game, and then the top 15 PG's? PF has more depth... I really don't see how anyone can dispute this.

3. Really? Why don't you look up Stockton, Brandon's and Payton's early #'s? Then go look at great big men's initial #'s. Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Webber... they all did very well their first year. Also... WHY? I managed to point out a cogent reason... you just assert.

Ah yes, one more thing... when exactly did I claim that Brand is a joke? I think he's a nice player, but he'll never be a superstar.

Please don't misrepresent my arguments next time. Thanks.

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Shandon Anderson rocks.
The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.


[This message has been edited by haven (edited October 10, 2000).]

 

1. Brand got to play easier competition because he's superior to all or most of the power forwards in the East. We know thats no fluke because he went West last year and did the same thing he was doing in the east. Look up his numbers if you doubt. The rockets, AND the clippers were both bad teams too---should we discount the performance of their rookies? That there reduces your argument to mish-mash.


The rest of your post I won't bother responding to. It flies in the face of conventional thinking and logic and I won't argue it because it has (already) time and time again proved to be true.



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but thats not the only reason gettingbranded, its because there just arent many good pfs in the east. Also Francis was double and triple teamed, espn mentions that in EVERY article they have aobut him. same with sports illustrated. they start the article off by going despite the double and triple teams steve faced, he still put up stellar numbers. And the bulls were HORRIBLE... while the rockets were closer to the bad-mediocre level. i say that if steve was drafted nuimber 1 he would get 24 ppg, 7 rpg, 4 apg(noone else can score), and 3 spg.
Brand is an excellent player, but in my opinion steve is hte better one.

 

I think this is an argument that only time will answer...

cya around the board...


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