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How good would would Harden and Rockets be if he had the mentality and leadership of MJ?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by hikanoo49, May 17, 2020.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    See, I agree with your take. Harden shouldn't be in the MJ, LeBron tier. I think he's just below the Kobe/Hakeem/Magic/Bird tier also. He's in the Wade tier currently.

    The issue here is that there are MANY posters here who equate him to MJ and LeBron.
     
  2. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    All he has to do is have the mentality of Hakeem Olajuwon
    @Clutch
     
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  3. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    there were a few who agreed with Morey’s take that Harden was on MJ’s level as a scorer, but I didn’t see anyone put him on MJ’s level as an overall player...that is an important distinction

    there were many who wouldn’t have wanted to trade him for Lebron, but that was for a variety of reasons

    I certainly have not seen many who are equating him to MJ or Lebron

    What are these threads and who are all these posters that are doing that? Are u sure you’re not equating what maybe 5 posters have done, and calling that many? Equating Harden to the likes of MJ isn’t something that’s happening in any significant way.

    Harden’s issue is that he’s had to go up against GS. Many players would not have won a title if they had to face a team on that level during their playoff run. Wade isn’t winning a title in 06 if he was facing GS. Dirk isn’t winning. I can go on and on.

    the fact that 2 MVPs in their prime in Curry and KD to go along with 2 All-Stars in Klay and Draymond as well as super role players like Iggy had to fight tooth and nail just to barely beat Harden, aging CP3, and role players tells me all I need to know...put a championship caliber team around Harden, and most years, he will deliver a title even with whatever flaws people want to focus on (every player has some sort of flaw anyways)...because most years there isn’t a team on GS’s level
     
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  4. rocketman84

    rocketman84 Member

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    Can’t believe that people still deny Jordan’s greatness. And deny the importance of mentality
     
  5. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Somewhat better. The Rockets would really improve if the ownership had the same mentality as the Bulls owner.
     
  6. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    You cant quantify it therefore it doesn't exist.
    -Morey.
     
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  7. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    This is actually a great question.

    I think the answer is yes.

    While defense is easier if you are an athletic freak like Jordan and Lebron, it can be played pretty well just by will and want to and desire.

    We've seen guys like Bruce Bowen, Battier, Stockton, become great defensive players despite not having the best athleticism in the world.

    Tucker isn't the most athletic guy in the world but hehas the desire to be a great defensive player.

    I do think it is largely a mentality thing and Harden is an athletic guy, very laterally quick as we've seen, so I think he should be a lot better on defense and we've seen him at times shine on defense...it's just not where his focus is at.

    I remember Paul George saying that because of all he does on offense it's kind of expecting that his defense suffers, i'll have to find the quote or maybe another player said it.
     
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  8. TilmanFinancialWindfall

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    MJ had Pippen and Rodman

    Harden had ole ass Dwight, injury prone CP3, and stat filler WB

    MJ had Phil. Harden had McHale and JBB
     
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  9. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    That is very true as well.... Hakeem was a warrior

    One line that stuck out at me via doc was that MJ said "he never asked his team mates to do anything that he would do"... Which could include things like training his butt off during off season and playing amazing d.

    From Hardens standpoint, do you think he can make the same argument?
     
    daywalker02 likes this.
  10. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    I honestly think Harden’s motivation is not the problem of this team. It’s the coaching
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    It is this mindset of being friends with everyone.....even Lebron does this.... laughing with everyone.

    MJ also had his friends but they are more opponents than friends, he even treats his teammates as soldiers.

    Trash talking is his way to communicate friendship and rivalry.
     
    #71 daywalker02, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 18, 2020
  12. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Hakeem was once in a lifetime talent.

    He won a championship playing alongside zero allstars.

    Get this through your thick skull. Even the GOAT, MJ, had to have TWO allstars by his side to win it all.

    Lebron needed 2 allstars in both Miami AND Cleveland to win it all.

    Steff needed at least 3-5 allstars.

    CP3 was not an allstar in any of his seasons with Houston. Westbrook is the first true allstar that Harden has played with his entire time with Rockets.

    SMH
     
  13. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    It's the talent.
     
  14. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    No time outs
    Like two people off the bench
    Missed 27 threes

    Rudy t would have made adjustments

    like when Dream was triple teamed in Phoenix
    He had Cassell and max attack the basket
     
  15. BigBum

    BigBum Member

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    Harden would have won a few.
    MDA needs to solve the scoring problems For 4th quarter.
    2017 game 6 Spurs
    Spurs 37, Rockets 11
    No Duncan, no Kawhi, No Parker,
    Ginobili plays 16 minutes, 2 points, 5 fouls

    2019 game 5 and 6, no Durant, no bench.
    4th Quarter only make 3 field goals first 11 minutes at home.

    Repeat the errors again and again.
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    I disagree that playing defense is just a matter of mentality. Of course mentality is an important part on defense. But I believe defensive skills are also about talent, just like offensive skills. This is so very underrated when we talk about playing defense.

    Understanding angles
    Seeing the floor (Yes, court vision is very important for defense, just like play making on offense)
    Sensing how the play develops

    These are just some things on top of my mind. And these are at least partially innate talent. Just like rebounding, it is about effort and mentality, but it is also about innate talent. People talk about BBIQ. BBIQ has two sides. Offensive IQ and defensive IQ.
     
  17. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    This hinakoo49 clown been pushing this sorry ass take for months now. He's another fake ass troll that claims to be a fan. Bitch ass IM me trying to be my friend, bitch gtfoh.
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    2018 CP3 was a top ten player?

    Paul Gasol and Andrew Bynum where both the allstar type players, that team also had prime Odom who was every much as good as 2018 CP3.

    Oh yeah that team also had prime Ariza and we had old Ariza playing exstended minutes.

    That team had 3 other allstar level guys in Odom, Gasol and Bynum while 2018 Rockets had one other allstar level guy.
     
  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    That's the thing though. You mentioned mental skills, mental skills can be acquired through hard work and the will to learn.

    I think this is why too defensive coaches always have an impact on a team because they are imparting that knowledge. You can sense how a play develops if you watch tape and know what to look for, as Battier did, if you know the tendencies of a player. On The Last Dance we watched how that Kerr shot broke down because Jordan knew how their defense was going to set up. We also watched how Jordan got a monumental steal because he knew what play they were going to run.

    Even if it is partially innate talent, you can still be an above average defender if you put in the effort to be. I also don't think BBIQ is innate, I think it is study and passion. I don't think CP3 and Lebron are innately smart on the court, I think its because they study their basketball and they are interested in the strategy of the game, and they are also aware of whats going on in the game to apply that knowledge real time.

    I just think a lot can be gained on defense by effort and want to.
     
  20. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    Harden needs more asshole tendencies. pause.

    Harden has been letting his contemporaries get away with a lot of bullshit for far to long.
     
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