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How dare you rank Kobe Bryant ahead of Magic Johnson...

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011.

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Magic or Kobe?

  1. Magic Johnson

    72 vote(s)
    73.5%

  2. Get a brain MORANS!!!

    26 vote(s)
    26.5%
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  1. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    Magic= 24.1 PER
    Kobe= 23.5 PER

    Magic= 19.5 PPG
    Kobe= 25.3 PPG

    I want to get this out of the way early, Magic could have scored a HELL of a lot more points If he wanted to. Magic plugged the holes that needed to be filled, but there is no doubt in my mind that he could have retired averaging 30 a game If so inclined. Not only could he have scored that many points, but he could have done it in a far more efficient manner.

    Magic= .610 TS%
    Kobe= .556 TS%

    Magic= .533 eFG%
    Kobe= .488 eFG%

    Magic= .520 FG%
    Kobe= .454 FG%

    Magic= .848 FT%
    Kobe= .837 FT%

    An underrated shooter, Magic had two full seasons where he shot over 90% from the free throw line.

    Magic= .303 3P%
    Kobe= .339 3P%

    For a guy that didn't take threes until his last few years in the league, because of a 70's evolved style of basketball (often initiating offense at the free throw line), Magic is a completely underrated shooter. In 1989, taking 3.5 threes a game, he shot .384, which is higher than any mark Kobe has put up in a single season.

    Magic= 0.225 WS/48
    Kobe= 0.187 WS/48

    Magic= 11.2 APG
    Kobe= 4.6 APG

    Magic= 7.2 RPG
    Kobe= 5.2 RPG

    I live in California, and it annoys the hell out of me that most of these so called "Laker fans" have Kobe ranked ahead of players like Michael Jordan, when he is clearly not the greatest Laker of all time. He could go on to win 10 rings, and I stand by the notion that Magic was a superior player and teammate in every facet of the game.
     
    #1 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
    2 people like this.
  2. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    While I agree with you on most of it, Magic was nowhere near a good enough shooter for much of his career to average 30 ppg or close.

    Tragic Magic of the 84 finals (the Celtics whole tactic was...let Magic shoot lol) made Bron's performance last year look legendary.
     
    #2 Aleron, Sep 17, 2011
  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    Magic shot 55 percent in the playoffs in 1983-84... 55 percent...

    Magic had the body of a PF, so there is no need for him to shoot threes in the first place.

    The guy completely annihilated opposing teams with sheer size and quickness. Remember when he laced them up as a C and decided to be a scorer? Magic could have been a hall of fame PF averaging about 32 and 15 If you take away the ball handling responsibilities. There is not a doubt in my mind. An elite post scorer. Magic was also an elite midrange shooter, as you can tell by his free throw percentages. Michael was putting up 35 before he could shoot 3's, If you have a midrange game, a post game, that works out just fine. You do NOT need an outside shot to be an elite scorer. Ask David Thompson... When your busy leading the league in assists you kind of put scoring on the backburner, and he was STILL putting up 20 a game...
     
    #3 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
  4. Aleron

    Aleron Member

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    On the thing of Kobe being better than Michael, it's a marketing thing for today's game, everyone wants money, and be it the league, the media or the sponsors, going "oh well, it'll just never be as good as Mike" isn't gonna do much.

    On the contrary, saying Kobe is better produces for the current league a) the homers to back Kobe and b) the peeps who will involve themselves enough to go against the absurd.

    Let me give you an example, how about I start a thread titled Dwight will be better than Dream here, I'd guarantee with 99% certainty i could get more bites, a much longer thread, and bring more focus to Dwight than i would ever get with the reverse.
     
    #4 Aleron, Sep 17, 2011
  5. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    Agreed and well understood. It's the "loyal" Laker fans that annoy me, not the media who is expected to be annoying.
     
    #5 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
  6. sealclubber1016

    sealclubber1016 Member
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    Magic was the better player, but its hardly a ridiculous thing to say.

    When all is said and done Kobe is probably a top 10 player, certainly top 15. 5 rings, and two as the unquestioned best player is hard to ignore.

    1.Jordan
    2.Russell
    3.Wilt
    4.Kareem
    5.Magic
    6.Bird

    Kobe certainly enters the discussion at 7
     
    #6 sealclubber1016, Sep 17, 2011
  7. Daedalus

    Daedalus Member

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    wasn't the 3pt line farther out during Magic's time?
     
    #7 Daedalus, Sep 17, 2011
  8. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    Rating players on rings is idiotic, in my humble opinion.

    To have 3 centers above Hakeem Olajuwon is also idiotic, in my humble opinion.
     
    #8 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2011
  9. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Career wise - Russell > Hakeem.

    But if I was starting a team I would take Hakeem any day of the week. Russell's minimal defensive advantage would be mitigated by Hakeem's gigantic offensive advantage.

    Russell is the king of intangibles though
     
    #9 VBG, Sep 17, 2011
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Kobe is extremely overrated.
     
    #10 Mr. Clutch, Sep 17, 2011
  11. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Can't really say that. I'd take all three of those guys above Dream.
     
    #11 Kojirou, Sep 17, 2011
  12. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    You can absolutely say that, and for anyone that is seen several games from each, I have no idea how you would come to any other conclusion. Olajuwon was the best, by a large margin...

    You can combine those three players, and Hakeem is still the superior player.



    (It ain't close)
     
    #12 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
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  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I was never a Magic fan. Too much of a Rockets fan to ever bring myself to root for him.

    But if you told me I could start a team and I could pick any player in history...I'd pick Magic Johnson.
     
    #13 MadMax, Sep 17, 2011
  14. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Member
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    I am surprised that the Magic/Michael debate isn't discussed more.

    That's Nike for ya...
     
    #14 RudyTBag, Sep 17, 2011
  15. johnstarks

    johnstarks Member

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    In my mind, Magic was the best offensive player of all time by the very fact that h was the only player ever that could dominate at all five positions. As a 20 year old rookie, he had 42pts, 15rbs, 7ast, and 3 stls as center in the closeout game of the NBA finals, winning NBA finals MVP. No other player has done that. Not Jordan. Plus, the mark of a great offensive player is making everyone else better, which Jordan only learned later on. Kobe can't even come close to carrying his jock strap. And I get irritated as hell by these Laker fanboys too.
     
    #15 johnstarks, Sep 17, 2011
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  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    LOL. Dream is arguably better than Russell. Wilt and Kareem are individually better. It is crazy to even talk about Olajuwon being better than the three of them combined. If you are drafting an all time team and the first two picks are not Wilt and Kareem, someone is doing it wrong.
     
    #16 StupidMoniker, Sep 17, 2011
  17. VBG

    VBG Member

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    I could think of taking Magic over them simply because Magic works with any team.
     
    #17 VBG, Sep 17, 2011
  18. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Those of us old enough to remember will never forget that game 6 in Philadelphia. Kareem was injured and Magic (as a rookie) did something historic. Magic was the definition of versatile and the NBA has not seen another player like him.

    Despite his versatility, Magic couldn't hold a candle to MJ on offense. As a rookie, MJ averaged 28/7/6, which shows he wasn't totally one-dimensional.

    To each his own opinion.
     
    #18 A_3PO, Sep 17, 2011
  19. Bball_Gill

    Bball_Gill Member

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    I wonder why Oscar is not even mentioned.
     
    #19 Bball_Gill, Sep 17, 2011
  20. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    My response then is where do you have Dream all-time then? I mean, Russell and Kareem are frequently viewed as the only two who come even close to Jordan. Magic and Bird? Not so much. And Wilt was just ridiculously dominant on an individual level.
     
    #20 Kojirou, Sep 17, 2011
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