Cleveland gets a pretty good offensive big man who should really thrive off Lebron as Boozer did. Rockets get a big, fairly efficient, starting 1/combo guard and a fairly athletic and defensive presence back-up 5. Other aspects to the trade: both Battie and McInnis are a couple of years younger, but both are also FAs next year where as Howard is locked away at now a fairly reasonable looking contract. Thoughts?
I would do that in a heartbeat, but Cleveland would lack depth in the backcourt again. We'd have to throw in Lue or Gaines somehow.
McInnis/ Gaines/ wilks T-mac/JJ/Pike JJ/Boki/T-mac Battie/Mo Yao/Battie You'd do that in a heartbeat? Deplete our team of offense and rebounds from the interior? In other words, have Yao pressured by the defense and have a return trip to last year's productivity offensively from the post with a PF that can't spread the floor and blocks less than Cato? No thanks, I'd rather have a combination of Lue, Jones or James at PG who can provide just as much offense as McInnis would in this Rocket's team and shoot better collectively from 3pt land. And keep Juwan Howard along with his automatic offense, decent position defense, and 7-8 rebounds.
i don't want to be left with mo and spoon as our only 4's. even though its a nice trade for us i would like to see how juwan pans out.
I can't believe people are interchanging Mo T and Howard. Howard actually gets a few rebounds in a game, and is capable of playing some post. Mo T is a oversized Small Forward... although he is a nice spark off the bench. My bet is that the Rox are offering Mo T, Pike or Griffen in these trades
There is no way they would include McInnis (real good production relative to contract) and Battie for MoT. Maybe Erik Williams (S&T) and Battie for MoT they would go for. Then we still need to address our 1 spot. I certainly think a JH/MoT combination is solid for the 4 spot and would rather trade Spoon and/or fill our other needs via FA/TE. But I don't think their is a major difference between MoT/Spoon holding down the 4 spot from JH/Spoon doing the same--assuming we have a legit back-up C. Their (MoT/JH) games are similar and the production difference in rebounds and points between JH and MoT are primarily a factor of PT. Yes I do think JH is the better overall player, but not by a mile when you consider what the Rockets will ask of them. Both are efficient offensive players, MoT actually shoots a little bit better from the field, last year and over their career. I don't see a big defensive difference among them either--both are below average as starters in the 4 spot, though Mo actually blocks more shots. Other factors are that JH has a cheaper contract (making him a much better tradable commodity), but is 4 years older. When I put it all together, I don't mind trading either if that is what it takes to get another starting quality PG or combo guard (JM/AD) and a quality back-up C with a defensive presence (Battie/Booth). If we can't address those needs via FA I say the team is better trading one of JH/MoT for the best deal out there.
Yeah, I think MoT is expendable with our roster. He would be the guy I could see traded to fill another hole or two. He has the contract for it and I think he would be a nice player in the East. McInnis is a nice point but is there any decent pg's available, either by trade or FA, that is under the age of 29 or 30? I am just curious cause it seems everyone ever mentioned is, whether it be Daniels, McInnis, etc; are all like 30 yrs. old and above.
I must be the lone person on this board that doesn't think there is any difference between Juwan Howard and Mo Taylor other than Juwan being older and having a longer (IMO worse) contract. I would absolutely do a Howard for Battie/McInnis deal. Our point guard position is improved (McInnis/Lue) more than the power forward position is weakened (Battie/Taylor).
I don't think the Cavs will trade Eric Williams and Battie for Mo but the Rockets should pull the trigger on it if they get that offer.
New Jack, I agree with you by and large. I don't see much difference between the players. A JH/Spoon/FA min 4 situation is not largely different than a MoT/Spoon/FA min 4 situation, offensively or defensively. I would much prefer JH/MoT to gobble the 4 minutes and dump Spoon, but if MoT or JH is needed to shore up multiple other elements in the roster--namely find a PG and back-up C--I would move one of them. The major difference is MoT is paid a lot more for the remaining couple years, but JH is older and on a longer (but cheaper short term) contract. There is not much difference between them defensively, I think Mo is probably a shade better defensively against power 4s and JH a shade better against quicker 4s, but they both are below average 4s defensively. Mo actually blocks more shots in fewer minutes too. All things considered, especially that I think JH is more desirable for other teams (higher market/trade value) looking for good production and lowering short term costs--I think I'd rather keep MoT who has a lot more years left and can be resigned according to his production after his contract runs out.
How often does Mo pass the ball after he gets his man on the block? Howard is a savvy interior passer and is much less selfish than Maurice. He's a more consistent jump shooter and he has a nice little baby hook. He's tougher; no one scores easy layups on him (ask Derek Anderson). He's not as injury prone as Mo. He's a better rebounder, and a GREAT position rebounder. Taylor rebounds better in traffic when the mood strikes, but how many times have you seen players slip by him to grab offensive boards because he didn't box out properly? You don't have the same problem with Howard. I think Juwan will have a great year playing alongside Yao.
From what I saw last season, Taylor is the one with the more consistent jumper and Taylor has the automatic hook shot. I don't consider Howard a significantly better rebounder. He gets 7 rebounds in 35 minutes, playing in the East, on a team that has no other rebounders competing with him for rebounds. Taylor gets 5 rebounds in 27 minutes, playing in the West, while having to compete with Yao, Cato, and Francis for rebounds. We'll just have to wait and see if Howards rebounding numbers remain the same next season. I would say he's a slightly more polished version of Taylor. When you take into account that Howard is on the downside of his career while Taylor is reaching peak, I say they're about even. I prefer paying Taylor 9 mil for the next 3 seasons rather than paying Howard 6.5 mil for the next 5 seasons. I HATE Moochie type of contracts, especially with older players. I'm pretty sure that in 3 years when Taylor's contract ends, he will be a better player than Howard will be in 5 years when his contract ends.
Though JH is a good outside shooter for a PF, Mo is even better by a slight margin and has a couple more feet on his jump shot. MoT is a career higher FT shooter, and not suprisingly slightly higher last year as well. Also, when you adjust for PT--points, rebounds, assists (JH is no interior passer like Webber), steals--all within a very close margin. Mo has a significant edge in blocks. I'd say JH is the better player, but you are not talking about a world of difference. JH is absolutely not an enforcer. Everyone noted the DA play was so surprising because it was completely out of character, and JH was quite sorry about it actually. He is no Karl Malone, Willis, Oakley, Mahorn, etc. I will give you JH is more of a workhorse (higher minutes, fewer injuries), but their games are not all that different when they are in the game and I don't think what the Rockets would ask of them are much different.
Hmm, couple more feet on his jump shot? Sure about that? A couple more feet from Juwan's range, and he'd be behind the arc. And if that's the case, Juwan's made a lot more three pointers in his career than Mo has. And the FT percentage shouldn't be much of an issue, since Mo hardly gets free throws to begin with. Blocks? You take .63 blocks into consideration when comparing between two players that aren't required and don't specialize in blocking? And no one's asking for Webber like interior passing, the fact of the matter is, the man can pass, is a pretty good assist guy for a PF, no matter how you slice it, that has taken a lot more shots than Mo Taylor. Not a world of a difference, but a difference well worth noting nonetheless. Juwan is a better player than Mo simply, by being just as a consistent shooter as he is, being a better post up player than he is, being a better passer, being a better rebounder. And yes, he is a better rebounder, his entire career he's been a 7-8 a season rebounder. Mo has never been able to reach over 6, not even with a year that allowed him 35+ mpg. Again, pointing out aspects that the player isn't required to do or specializes on or that is even asked of him to contribute to this team. If you don't think the difference isn't much to consider or worth nothing after what I have pointed out, and you have given, that shouldn't be new to anyone, then I don't know what else to say. Ah yes, JH is actually a decent position defender as well. Still not much of a difference eh? Well, if that's the case, I'd like to ask you a question. Would you seriously prefer another Kelvin Cato? That isn't as good a shot blocker as Kelvin, and turns the ball over more, and I do mean Tony Battie, over Juwan Howard and what he would offer to the team?
