House passes war appropriations bill - Chimpy throws a hissy fit

This bill is not filla-busta proof in the Senate, I suspect.IMO, it would be very BAD for the Republican Party if W did veto (in the very unlikely case it gets to him). The veto was no upside.

 

Absolutely sick that the only way you can get W to veto a pork-laden, budget-busting, mortgage-the-future bill is to require him put his pet war on a schedule.

 

Even as a war opponent I'm leery of this bill. I think there is a Constitutional problem regarding dictating to the Comander and Chief future strategy in this regard. Its putting Congress in a position that is Constitutionally reserved for the Executive. Understandably Congress has the power of the purse but to the point they are placing conditions based on the results on the battlefield that would seem to crossing into strategic military decisions.

To me it seems like either funding it or not funding it would've been the more Constitutional action.

 

in this day and age who really needs the constitution

 

I have heard that the WH has a TP shortage (since they are full of sh*t).

 

Congress (and every part of government) does this all the time. They pass bills that they know they don't have authority to pass, just to make a statement. It's like the city council denying the KKK a permit to demonstrate. That council knows that restricting that speech is un-Constitutional, but they'd rather a judge say the KKK can demonstrate than do it themselves.

It bothers me much more that Pelosi didn't have the votes for this, so she bought them with $24 billion worth of pork.

D&D. Meet the new boss, just like the old boss.

 

Knowing that this bill will get vetoed, why are the Democrats wasting the time of Congress to go through the motions on what will surely be a failed exercise? Answer: Their partisan politics are once again their top priority. The nation's best interest comes second. The Iraq war is used by them as a political weapon, against our nation's and our troops' best interest. The Democrats have literally done everything in their power to ensure defeat in Iraq. Negative propaganda, threatening to cutoff funding, imposing pull-out dates, you name it, they've done it. It's disgusting.

 

mark be honest with me. do you really think those benchmarks are reasonable? do you really think iraqis have the capabilities of meeting those benchmarks?

i hate this war. i was against before it started. but creating a civil war and than saying hey yall can't control it peace...is dead wrong.

will me voting for a democrat in 08 ensure that iraqis are financially supported? that iraqis get help with rebuilding the infrastructure that has been ruined due to our war?

 

I'm with you insane man. I was against the war, but I don't agree with just taking off and leaving them in that bad of a condition, especially with the countries around them waiting to pounce. Its unfortunate were in this mess but we have to figure it out, we can't just bail

 

Well according to the same Constitution, Congress has the sole authority to make a declaration of war. It hasn't stopped Bush from starting wars either.

 

Well, we can't afford to be altruistic. Then why should we print more T-bills and sacrifice more lives of our best citizens?

There is a cost to take the moral high ground. If we can't afford it, we don't pay for it. But then we are known to be a debtor nation...

 

Congress overwhelmingly authorized Bush to go to war. Bush has not started any wars in defiance of congress.

 

its not about being altruistic. its about fixing the mess you made.

there is a legal obligation to providing security and general welfare that was around before the US invaded. we broke international law by obviously invading without a credible reason and similarly we are breaking international law by not providing security for iraqis.

(7) 363. Duty to Restore and Maintain Public Order The authority of the legitimate power having in fact passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all the measures in his power to restore, and ensure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country. (HR, art. 43.)
wiki

this isn't to say i dont support ending the war. but i certainly am not a fan of creating benchmarks which simply cannot be met. we lied to go to war, can we at least not lie to get out of it.

 

Good, let's send a message to the Iraqis that they need to take over their country....time for them to step into the breach.

DD

 

Agreed Congress does stuff for show but at that point then they should've just passed a non-binding resolution expressing their dissaproval.

IMO Congress seriously dropped the ball on this with not officially declaring war. At the same time though the resolution that Congress passed most people including the legislators that voted for it agree that it serves the purpose as a declaration of war. The problem is though while Congress has the sole power of declaring war its not clear that Congress has the power to dictate strategy or tactics and reading the Article I of the Constitution that power would appear to reside with the President. Congress can declare war and fund it, or not, but it isn't clear they can do more than that. That this bill sets forth battlefield benchmarks and sets for a date for withdrawl IMO crosses that line.

IMO the Constitutional actions Congress has in regard to the war is to either pass a sense of the Congress resolution or choose to cut off funds altogether.

 

It is about whether we can afford it no matter you are being altruistic or just trying to fix the mess you made. I think the consensus is that even if we keep our current level of spending and sacrifice, the mess will be prolonged but not fixed.

Putting several hundred thousands of boots on the ground via draft plus pumping several trillions of dollars for years into Iraq Economy can surely fix the mess, but can we do that?

I applaud your ideal of taking the moral high ground but please think a step further and tell us how your ideal can be achieved.