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Hoops Critic Top 50 of all-time

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by dream2franchise, Sep 30, 2015.

  1. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    That's laughable. You know it.

    +As a 2nd year player lead 52 win team to the Finals by beating the World Champion 60+ win Showtime Lakers. When did Duncan ever beat a team as good the Lakers in the mid 80s.

    + In 94, the Rockets defeated the Barkley-led Suns, the Stockton/Malone Jazz, and Black and Blue Knicks in some very toughly contested series.

    + In 95, the Rockets became the first 6th seeded team to win an NBA title. The Rocket also became the first team in NBA history to not only beat 3 60 wins teams in the playoff, but they also won every series as a road team.

    1994-95 Utah Jazz, 1994-95 Phoenix Suns, 1994-95 San Antonio Spurs, and 1994-95 Orlando Magic - The Rocket also beat four teams that had at least on MVP-award winning player on it.
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    San Antonio won five titles, which is nothing to scoff at. But let's take a little perspective here.

    **The Spurs beat a much weaker Lakers team in 2003 and dominated a Lakers team in 1999 that was in a bit of turmoil. What happened in 2001,2002, 2004, and 2008? The Spurs got swept once (2001), only managed to win one game in 02 and 08, and simply got beat by a better team in 2004. So, the Lakers win 4-2 against the Spurs, we could add in 2013, but Kobe was injured that year.

    **The Spurs most impressive year, I agree was in 2005, they knocked off the world champion Pistons and the Suns. Really the Pistons were the only really good team the Spurs played in the Finals, outside of Miami. The others were against an injury riddled Knicks team, a very overmatched New Jersey team, and the Cleveland LeBrons. The Suns team was very good team, but do you think they were any better than the teams the Rockets knocked off - 1994 New York Knicks, 1995 Orlando Magic, 1995 San Antonio Spurs, and 1995 Phoenix Suns. I am not even using the 86 team, here who beat an all time great team.

    **Beat LeBron, twice. So, we are counting the 06-07 Cavs that had no semblance of a decent lineup outside of anyone named LeBron.
     
  2. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    You posted Duncan individual stats. I simply pointed out that Olajuwon's stats were better and now you're going say that stats don't matter? Then why did you post Duncan's individual stats in the first place?

    If you are just going to count rings then obviously Bill Russell is the greatest player ever. That's not really even debatable.

    In '86 , Olajuwon's Rockets beat the Showtime Lakers, one of the all-time great teams and then lost in the finals to the Celtics who I consider to be the greatest team in history.

    In both '94 and '95 the Rockets beat a loaded Suns team that was much better than the Suns team that the Spurs beat. Btw in those playoffs vs the Suns, Duncan was torched by Amare in a historical performance.

    In '95 the Rockets beat 3 60 win teams in the playoffs, all without homecourt advantage. No team in NBA history has ever defeated 3 60 win teams in a single playoffs.

    The Rockets also defeated the Jazz who had two hall of fame players in their prime. We beat David Robinson in his MVP season when he was teamed with future hall of farmer Dennis Rodman.

    Later we finally beat the Sonics who were one of the dealest and most athletic teams in NBA history.
     
  3. what

    what Member

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    I did it to prove that duncan was a scorer that could be on the level with the guys he mentioned, not to make it all about stats.

    The separation between hakeems stats and duncans were nominal. And hakeem did it do the detriment of his team, while duncan did not.

    also, yall keep bringing up 86. If they would have won the title that year you would have had a point. But hakeem went through 4 first round exits that it would appear that Sampson had more to do with that vicory than hakeem himself did.

    Without sampson hakeem couldn't even get out of the first round.
     
  4. Da34Box

    Da34Box Member

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    I can't get over the fact that they put jason kidd over clyde drexler.
     
  5. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    I thought Clyde was way too low, he was the guy on a powerhouse team that ended the Lakers' WC supremacy. Clyde should've been in the 20s.
     
  6. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    LOL @ Tim Duncan scoring at will.

    Tim Duncan struggled to score against the Pistons in the finals.

    He should be thanking Manu and Horry for saving his ass.

    Manu pretty much created everything for the Spurs that series.

    OTOH, Knicks frontline, which was much more brutal than the Pistons front-line, could not stop Hakeem. Hakeem did not have a Manu to run the team offense either. The entire offense was run through Hakeem.

    Tim Duncan would have been crushed by that Knicks defense, especially without any help from his perimeter creators.

    Tim Duncan - It must be nice to have your teammates carry their fair share of load and then you take all the credit for it.
     
  7. tksense

    tksense Member

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    Everyone conveniently ignores what's argument on Hakeem being on the trading block at one point, due to his attitude and team failure. Things have flipped for the better since, but if we judge the overall body of work as a "better teammate", what has a point. Duncan has lower peak, but has never been a problem as a teammate.

    Also, what points out that Sampson has probably played a bigger role in the success in 86. Hakeem turned it around only after almost being traded.
     
  8. OpenLayup-Why3?

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    So you say Hakeem's better than Shaq and Kobe? :D That's so unexpected, Rockets fans glorifying Rockets player.
     
  9. OpenLayup-Why3?

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  10. mfastx

    mfastx Member
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    Tim Duncan have five championships but only three finals MVPs. He was only the best player on his team for three of those rings. Which should knock him down a bit IMO.
     
  11. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    In '86 we beat one all time great team in the Showtime Lakers and we lost the finals to a team that is considered by many to be the greatest team of all time.

    Sampson had more to do with the '86 run? You obviously didn't watch those games. Hakeem was phenominal and easily our best player.

    In the '86 playoffs, Hakeem averaged 26.9 pts, 53% fg%, 11.8 reb, 3.5 blk and 2 assists.

    In the '86 finals against the Celtics Hall of Fame front line, Olajuwon averaged 24.7pts,11.8 reb, 3.2 blk, 2.3 stl on 48% shooting. In those same finals, Sampson averaged 14.8 pts, 9.5 reb, 0.8 blk, 1 steal on 43.8% shooting.

    Without Sampson Hakeem couldn't get out of the first round? You must mean without Sampson, Lloyd, Wiggins and Lucas, Hakeem couldn't get out of the first round. Show me any team that loses 4 of their 6 best players and doesn't have a dropoff.

    Who's the best team that a Tim Duncan led team has ever beaten in the playoffs? For that matter, who's the best team that Duncan's even faced (win or lose in the playoffs)?
     
  12. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    Hakeem wasn't on the trading block due to his attitude or team failure. He was in contract negotiations with the Rockets and when he got hurt, our idiot GM Steve Patterson decided that it must be a negotiating ploy. That's the same Steve Patterson that later proved himself to be an idiot as Portland GM and the same guy that just got fired as UT AD after only 22 months.

    Patterson accused Hakeem of faking an injury as a negotiating ploy. When that happened Hakeem demanded to be traded. That's why they explored trades, not because they wanted to.
     
  13. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    Pat Riley had two messages for his team on the team board as the keys to beating Houston..

    One of them read along the lines of "Contain Hakeem".

    They still could not.

    ''We tried everything,'' Riley said. ''We put four bodies on him. We helped from different angles. He's just a great player, and he's proved that.''

    This was Hakeem in his second year.
     
  14. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    L - 62-20 Utah Jazz (1997-98)
    L - 56-26 Los Angeles Lakers (2000-01) (Home field -advantage)
    L - 58-24 Los Angeles Lakers (2001-02)
    L - 56-26 Los Angeles Lakers (2003-04) (Home field -advantage)
    L - 60-22 Dallas Mavericks (2005-06) (Home field -advantage)
    L - 57-25 Los Angeles Lakers (2007-08)
    L - 46-36 Memphis Grizzlies (2010-11) (#1 seed vs. #8 seed)
    L - 47-19 Oklahoma City Thunder (2011-12) (Home-field advantage)
    L - 66-16 Miami Heat (2012-13)


    W - 50-32 Los Angeles Lakers(2002-03) (Home field -advantage)
    W - 60-22 Dallas Mavericks (2002-03) (No Dirk in this series)
    W - 62-20 Phoenix Suns (2004-05)
    W - 54 -28 Detroit Pistons (2004-05) (Home field -advantage)
    W - 61-21 Phoenix Suns (2006-07)
    W - 56-26 Memphis Grizzlies (2012-13) (Home field advantage)
    W - 54-28 Miami Heat (2013-14) (Home field -advantage)
     
  15. plutoblue11

    plutoblue11 Member

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    This is Olajuwon's lines:

    W - 62-20 Los Angeles Lakers (1985-86)
    W - 56-26 Phoenix Suns (1993-94) (Home field -advantage)
    W - 53-29 Utah Jazz (1993-94) (Home field -advantage)
    W - 57-27 New York Knicks (1993-94) Home field -advantage)
    W - 60-22 Utah Jazz (1994-95)
    W - 59-23 Phoenix Suns (1994-95)
    W - 62-20 San Antonio Spurs (1994-95)
    W - 59-23 Orlando Magic (1994-95)
    W - 57-25 Seattle Supersonics (1996-97)


    L - 67-15 Boston Celtics (1985-86)
    L - 55-27 Seattle Supersonics (1992-93)
    L - 64-18 Seattle Supersonics (1995-96)
    L - 64-18 Utah Jazz (1996-97)
     
  16. what

    what Member

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    lol, this is so skewed. I guess every team in 95 was a generational team, while the spurs play one generational team every 3 years. lol
     
  17. what

    what Member

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    why don't we go by this: how many championships did teams that the rockets played and beat win a championship in their own right?

    The lakers, one team.

    Off the top of my head: the spurs beat shaq and kobe: 3 championships, wade and lebron, 2 championships, pistons, 1 championship, Mavericks, 1 championship.

    shaq never won a championship with penny, spurs never won a championship without tim and the knicks nor the jazz ever won a championship.
     
  18. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Kobe above the guy who won three Finals MVPs playing on the same team? And ahead of Hakeem? :rolleyes:
     
  19. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    By missing 4th quarter free throws that set up Horry to make the clutch plays.
     
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  20. qwertzy

    qwertzy Member

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    Stupidest list ever
     

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